BD Stinger vs Petzl Dart

With the ice season coming my time to buy some crampons is going away and I have narrowed it down to two choices. The BD Stinger and the Petzl Dart. But alas I'm at an impasse.

From what I've seen the Dart's weigh 820g vs the Stinger's 960g which gives the Darts a point over the Stingers. And looking at pics the secondary points on the Dart seem to be more aggressive unless I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure I'll be monopoint all the time but the Darts do give the option to go dualpoint which seems nice. And it means they come with a spare point if I go mono. Does anyone have experience using both crampons (or the Cyborg and Lynx since they use the same frontpoints) and know the performance between the two frontpoints?

I also plan to do mixed climbing if that helps.

So what are y'alls thoughts on these crampons?

I've used Stingers for years and have liked them. However, the points do wear pretty quickly when climbing on rock. I switched to Darts this season and have really liked them so far. The crampon itself fits well on newer Phantom Techs, and the secondary points are nicely positioned. I have found that I generally like Petzl products and think that their quality design and manufacturing is superior to other brands. They are lighter as you mention and are also far more modular.

One additional factor you might want to consider is the stiffness of the crampon, i had a partner who climbed on BD stingers for a while and i could always see them flexing under his weight  (middle of the crampon bowing downwards). I was always surprised at how flexible they were, this can probably be mitigated by a very tight fit to your boot.

 I used the cyborgs for 3 seasons on ice up to grade 4+, bust mostly on 2-3+. I really like them and decided this year to try stingers because I like the BD platform so much. It’s easy to go from stingers to cyborgs if you want to add a front point, and if they get beyond sharpening you can buy the replacement points for $13 each. 

Darts all day. Used BD for many years and they climbed fine. However I like the secondary points on the darts. The wider platform feels more stable and gives me a little more to work with. The front points are way easier to swap out compared to BD and seemed to wear better especially when scratching up rocks. The ability to adjust front point length easily is nice too depending on conditions. Overall fitting of darts to my boots was nicer and less complicated than with the BD. As well as no need to have to swap out toe bails to make them work on the narrower welts on newer boots.

Another thing to note my friend uses the Blade Runners and swears by them. They seem nice with the stiff design but rather heavy and you can't change the frontpoint length. How do they compare to the Dart and Stinger on ice and harder mixed routes?

With mono points you might want to consider how much of the mono-point you can get onto a small edge, into a crack or into the ice before secondary points start to get in the way or make contact with the ice, for example i find the blade runners difficult to climb cracks in, but sometimes more stable on ice. You can see in the photo below some perspective on how much mono point you have before secondary points make contact. The rambo on the bottom and the lynx on top are a bit worn down, but the G20+ and the blade runner have new points, and you can see a big difference.

Discontinued version Blade Runners $185

@ryan smith - thanks for posting that picture. Huge bonus points if you can do it again with a boot in each one to highlight how far the secondaries stick out in front of the toe.

The blade runners are my current favorite ice crampon because the secondaries are so aggressive, but I would love to see how they compare to the new darts and the g 20+

@rocknice2 or anyone - do you know what upgrades were made to the current blade runner that rendered the old one discontinued? A quick look at the new one and it looks the same to me.

I used cyborgs for a long time (6yrs) and they were fine. I picked up a pair of lynx to replace them, as I wanted the option for dual points (before the new darts) and they have nice cleanly shaped points for easy sharpening. They climb great. I find the steel on the lynx to be much more resistant to dulling on rocks which is a bonus for alpine. The stock bail also fits modern boots better where as I had to buy another bail for the BD. I've got a pair of the new darts ready to go this season. Being able to adjust the length of the front points, more easily swap mono/dual, and antibots push them over the top in my mind.

At a glance: 

2020:

https://www.camp-usa.com/outdoor/product/discontinued/discontinued-fw2020/cassin-blade-runner-crampons/

2021: 

https://www.camp-usa.com/outdoor/product/crampons/blade-runner/

Looks like they removed the silly center bar on the toe bail (I cut that off anyway), there is a new mechanism for adjusting the linking bar, they have a new heel bail clip that looks like their skimo ones (light but not as adjustable w/ just 3 settings), they say the anti-balling plates and front platform are new but nothing obvious in the photo...

I'd be curious as to the weight spec if anyone feels like contacting Cassin.

After doing some digging it looks like the old Blade Runners weigh 1015g (35.8oz) and 1030g (36.3oz) for size 1 and size 2 respectively. On the new ones they weigh 940g (33.2oz) and 950g (33.5oz). Also at the REI I work at they have the new Blade Runners there and the anti-balling plates are a rubbery material akin to the Lynx. On the old model it is a hard plastic if memory serves. And the adjustment system has more options and function more like the Lynx.

@ryan smith thanks for the pics super helpful in my decision making process.

Looks like a narrower toe bail.

BD Stingers for years. Always liked them. Had a Petzl clinic and was sold on new Darts - sharper monos (and spare front points) and secondary points, better anti-snow plates and don’t laugh - ”covered” front point hardware! Changing front points on the Stinger is a pain in the ass when they get banged up! The Darts climbed ice and mixed better than the Stingers did in my opinion. 

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote:

@ryan smith - thanks for posting that picture. Huge bonus points if you can do it again with a boot in each one to highlight how far the secondaries stick out in front of the toe.

The blade runners are my current favorite ice crampon because the secondaries are so aggressive, but I would love to see how they compare to the new darts and the g 20+

Bladerunner vs G20, you could move the toe bail back on the bladerunner and get more point out, its set in the front hole.  The G20 toe bail is set in the middle hole. If you move the toe bail to the front hole on the G20 you completely loose that small secondary point, which can be nice for some mixed (slotting in cracks or small pockets)

Shows what makes the Blade Runners awesome on ice - look at that thin point. It's like an ice pick vs a mixed pick. 

Bryce Dahlgren wrote:

With the ice season coming my time to buy some crampons is going away and I have narrowed it down to two choices. The BD Stinger and the Petzl Dart. But alas I'm at an impasse.

From what I've seen the Dart's weigh 820g vs the Stinger's 960g which gives the Darts a point over the Stingers. And looking at pics the secondary points on the Dart seem to be more aggressive unless I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure I'll be monopoint all the time but the Darts do give the option to go dualpoint which seems nice. And it means they come with a spare point if I go mono. Does anyone have experience using both crampons (or the Cyborg and Lynx since they use the same frontpoints) and know the performance between the two frontpoints?

I also plan to do mixed climbing if that helps.

So what are y'alls thoughts on these crampons?

I have both. I prefer the Stingers, as they fit my boots better. What boots are you using? On both Nepal Cubes and Phantom Techs, I preferred the position of the mono point on the stinger to the dart. I also never needed to fuck with them to get a good fit—worked great with standard toe bail on both those boots. I don’t like the angular petzl bail, but you can swap it out easily enough if you want. I feel like my darts wear faster than the stingers—others here say the opposite. Either crampon will get you up anything. The best climbers in the world use both these models. The Bd linking bar is more flexible if you are just holding it—but a tight fit on stiff boots eliminates that flex in practice. I don’t like the way the petzl crampons adjust. Grivel g22, bd stinger, both fit all my boots better, from getting a tight fit to the way the points align on the sides and most importantly at the front. Also, there is nothing about the dart that makes changing the front point easier than the stinger—it’s the same shit. the darts have become the beater pair that I will use until they break or there is nothing left to sharpen. I won’t replace it when it’s dead. Also, depending on the size of your boots, you may need a different linking bar straight out of the gate with the darts. I just don’t get the hype, but people who climb way harder than anyone on MP use both these models—get what you think looks better. 

I would make your choice based solely on boot fit and if that is a toss up then secondarily based on price. They're both good (and so are the Cassin and Grivel models - check out the Alpinist Tech and G20/G22). Although the weight savings of the Dart is nice, in practice it doesn't matter much. Once you wear your set out, you'll know if you want to replace with the same or try another manufacturer.

I have the Nepal Evos in a size 46 so if I got the Darts then I was expecting to buy the longer bar. Does anyone know how the Darts and Stingers would fit on my boots?

Bryce Dahlgren wrote:

I have the Nepal Evos in a size 46 so if I got the Darts then I was expecting to buy the longer bar. Does anyone know how the Darts and Stingers would fit on my boots?

Regular length Darts aren't going to fit, that much I know.