Clean Nose Carabiner comparesement - which one to decide for QuickDraw Upgrade: DMM Chimera or Wild Country Helium - or another one?

Garfield LovesFood wrote:

Thanks for the feedback.

Well, you need 20 draws: I never claimed I carry 20 draws, buts a different if I go Lead climbing in a gym with 15m walls, which takes 5-10 short draws,

or if I go double rope alpine climbing where I need 16+ draws which are extendable.

Just my two cents, if you’re double rope alpine climbing, consider that you may not need two carabiners per sling. Maybe 8 slings with a single biner and 8 slings as alpine draws suffices. This gives you your 16 (which is still a lot imo, unless your pitches are 200 M), but breaks down into “12 draws”.

Garfield LovesFood wrote:

By the way:The Dyons didnt arrived yet, but I guess I will go with the Helium 2 for the rope end. I tried clipping a few more times indoors and I think it worths the additional 2 grams compared to the DMM Chimera. Im yet undecided if I go with smth. like the Nano 22g, or the Edelrid Mission 25g or the CT Fly Weight Evo 26g or maybe the DMM Chimera 30g for the gear end. Lets see - I feel already good enaugh to have my rope end upgraded.

Try threading a helium through a cam sling, then try threading a Dyon through a cam sling. Doing this will make the answer "dyon." The skinny nose is beneficial in more than one application. The Dyon is the gear end on every single one of my alpine draws, at least the ones w/ two biners.

Garfield LovesFood wrote:

By the way:The Dyons didnt arrived yet, but I guess I will go with the Helium 2 for the rope end. I tried clipping a few more times indoors and I think it worths the additional 2 grams compared to the DMM Chimera. Im yet undecided if I go with smth. like the Nano 22g, or the Edelrid Mission 25g or the CT Fly Weight Evo 26g or maybe the DMM Chimera 30g for the gear end. Lets see - I feel already good enaugh to have my rope end upgraded.

A clean nose for the rope end but not the gear end doesn't make sense to me.  Ropes don't really get nose hooked, and the gear (or bolt) end is the end that is harder to clean on a steep/overhanging route (which probably isn't an issue for trad draws anyway).  Nose hooking is mainly a risk on bolts, although it can happen on nut wires and possibly cam slings.  All of the combinations you're talking about here are the opposite of that, with a "snaggable" carabiner on the gear end, and a clean nose on the rope end.  

If you look at commercially available quickdraws with a mix of clean and notched carabiners (BD Hotforge Hybrid, CAMP Photon Mixed), they will always have the clean nose on the bolt end and the normal wiregate on the rope end.

Here is a photo comparing a bunch of different carabiners...my money is on the CAMP Dyon after doing exactly what you did.  I am less concerned with the absolute lightest biner, but more how they functioned in real life situations. I will say I really like the DMM Phantom/Shadow carabiner due to light weight but still being big enough to feel good in my hand. The Dyon's thin nose profile makes it easier to snag a sling or wired nut.  I put a Metolius UL Master cam for comparison.

I owned and eliminated the Petzl Ange early on. 

From top left to right: Petzl Spirit, BD Positron, DMM Shadow straight, BD Oval, Kong Oval, DMM Shadow bent, Petzl Djinn, BD Livewire, BD Hotwire, Camp Photon, Camp Dyon, BD Neutrino, DMM Chimera, DMM Phantom, CAMP Nano and Edelrid 19.

And to re-iterate the previous post, the more important side of the sling to have a snag-less nose is the GEAR side (bolt, wire, cam etc.)

I’ve been using Camp Dyon carabiners for a few years now and some of the gates are starting to stick open.. 

It seems to me they are getting a bit tweaked over time and just don’t snap back like they used to.

I tweak them back and spray a little red paint on them to monitor them.. I still absolutely love they way they feel and the price.

Anyways, is anyone else running into this issue?

Jeff Erwin wrote:

I’ve been using Camp Dyon carabiners for a few years now and some of the gates are starting to stick open.. 

It seems to me they are getting a bit tweaked over time and just don’t snap back like they used to.

I tweak them back and spray a little red paint on them to monitor them.. I still absolutely love they way they feel and the price.

Anyways, is anyone else running into this issue?

I think it is lot dependent. My early Dyon's did have a mushy feel to the gate. Later ones are snappier. I only really use the Dyon's for trad climbing, and the tend to get use for anchors and a little bit of everything, so they get dirtier than my sport gear. 

All my sport draws are solid gate either Petzl Spirits or DMM Shadows. 

Garfield LovesFood wrote:

By the way:The Dyons didnt arrived yet, but I guess I will go with the Helium 2 for the rope end. I tried clipping a few more times indoors and I think it worths the additional 2 grams compared to the DMM Chimera. Im yet undecided if I go with smth. like the Nano 22g, or the Edelrid Mission 25g or the CT Fly Weight Evo 26g or maybe the DMM Chimera 30g for the gear end. Lets see - I feel already good enaugh to have my rope end upgraded.

Skip nanos. I like them, but in the long run partners and I didn't enjoy the pia they can be to unclip for gear or bolts.

Highly recommend dyons on both ends for gear, larger size makes it easier to handle. Backcountry had them in stock earlier this week, other option is backorder via Backcountry gear.

So,

the Dyons arrived together with the NANO.

Indeed, I do not see why I should use the Helium - and indeed, I do not plan on using nose-key wiregates like the NANO or FlyWeight Evo.

I think I will go with the Dyons for all Quick Draws, and lets see what other gear I might upgrade with them, but this decision is purely based on the haptic.

Surprising outcome to me - because I tried all the other clean-nose biners and wasnt feeling clear, but now I do.

I like other CAMP equipment, like the Swing or Druid, so I feel quite comfortable with the brand - but like some other users I would prefer them to not be made in China. Actually, the Dyons that I received do look like cast metal, because of some surface lunkers (damages of the finish), which is why I do not feel confident with them as I do with the Heliums right away.

Also, the two piece Gate of the Dyon does not look trustworthy: Only some small dent in the sheet metal is supposed to attach it to the wiregate, so I can not think of kilo Newtons pulling on that small piece of bent metal.

So, I definitly would prefer some hot forged biner and some more sturdy looking connection of the two piece gate! Anyway - gear is meant to fail, and I never only trust one attachment point, so I guess I will live with that.

Thanks for all your help again - I would have missed the Dyons and went with the Chimera or Helium if I have not asked you.

Ciao

Ps.: I weight the Biners on a calibrated Scale:

32,8g for the Helium V2,

34,1g for the Dyon.