Mountain Project Logo

In case you werent sure why quicklinks as bail biners is a douche move

Original Post
Luke Andraka · · Crownsville, MD · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 15

https://rockandice.com/videos/weekend-whippers/carabiner-breaks-climbing-fall/

Adam Fleming · · AMGA Certified Rock Guide,… · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 497
Luke Andraka wrote:

https://rockandice.com/videos/weekend-whippers/carabiner-breaks-climbing-fall/ 

Add a space at the end of links to make them clipable hyperlinks.  

Preeti P · · San Jose, CA · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 5

A real corner case because most people are not going to carry quick links.  Interesting though.  

"Hanging on the draw to rest, I noticed that the carabiner was loaded over the quicklink it shared the hanger with..."

The carabiner/quick draw user manual basically don't load a carabiner this way, but its good to point for everyone to freshen their knowledge.  

My understanding of what happened: loading over an edge

Big Red · · Seattle · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 1,175
Preeti P wrote:

A real corner case because most people are not going to carry quick links.  

I've seen more quick links on harnesses and bolts than I care to remember, I'd say they're more popular than carabiners.

Luke Andraka · · Crownsville, MD · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 15
Preeti P wrote:

A real corner case because most people are not going to carry quick links.  Interesting though.  

"Hanging on the draw to rest, I noticed that the carabiner was loaded over the quicklink it shared the hanger with..."

The carabiner/quick draw user manual basically don't load a carabiner this way, but its good to point for everyone to freshen their knowledge.  

My understanding of what happened: loading over an edge

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Examples-of-dangerous-carabiner-loading-?ActivityName=Rock-climbing#7.appui 

Alot of people use em as bail biners and their screw links get rusted shut and ya cant undo them on lead so you have to clip around them. Just a psa on why this is not just a cheapass move, but also a douche move. Leave a carabiner

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349
Luke Andraka wrote:

Alot of people use em as bail biners and their screw links get rusted shut and ya cant undo them on lead so you have to clip around them. Just a psa on why this is not just a cheapass move, but also a douche move. Leave a carabiner

Word!!!  

Princess Puppy Lovr · · Rent-n, WA · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 1,756

Interesting, sometimes I do not like where a perma is placed and I put my own quick draw over it, I guess I wont now or I will clip both. I did however play with some bolt hangers, quick links and a carabiner. When the hanger is on a 90 degree feature there is some cross loading. When it is at a 80 degree angle it seems that there is significant cross loading. Over hanging seems to be way less an issue. The bolt he is clipped to in the video appears to be sub 90 degrees but maybe someone who has climbed the route can comment. I also think it might be possible that the quick link opened the gate a little (seemed doable on my larger draws) thus weakening the draw.

Lena chita · · OH · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 1,667
Preeti P wrote:

A real corner case because most people are not going to carry quick links.

You’d be surprised... I have encountered “bail” on sport climbs only twice this year. Both times it was quicklinks.

The second time was just a couple of weeks ago, on this climb. And the quicklink definitely caused the draw to hang weirdly, with a possibility of loading over the edge, but getting the draw under quicklink was a bit tricky, it was a really beefy one. Fortunately, I was not particularly worried about the fall, and the next bolt (with a permadraw) was only two moves away.

I was very confused why people left the quicklink, because they could have easily grabbed their draw and aided to the permadraw, eliminating the need to leave any bail gear in the first place, even if they didn’t have a stick clip to aid past the wet spot... 

I have, of course, removed that quicklink when I cleaned the route.

Jack Yip · · San Jose, CA · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 155

At least to make a quick note, it’s not inherently immoral to carry a quick link, it makes perfect sense for revamping slung rap anchors that may have notched rap rings or other issues. But yes in essence, it’s pretty lazy to bail off of a sport climb with one. 


There’s a Bay Area climb at CRSP that comes to mind that you can walk to the top anchors should you need to rap and clean a high point bail biner that someone left a quick link (now rusted shut) on. Hate this. As with everything else in the climbing world, a tool exists for the purpose it’s intended for, bailing off of a bolt is not that purpose.

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20
Lena chita wrote:

I was very confused why people left the quicklink,

I found a quick link  rusted shut - I could not make it budge with a wrench on top of this - Size Doesn't Matter

What I fail to understand - if someone got to that bolt, they were done with hard part of the route. They bailed on a real ramp - I am not quite sure how one could fall there, unless they somehow managed to change into flip flops after pulling the crux.

Mark Frumkin · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 52

New bail draw, you can clip it or bolt it! 

I think you are missing the real point. He's in a crack clipped to a bolt!

Cherokee Nunes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

Clip UNDER the quick link, not over it.

Live Perched · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 21

I used to carry a quick links to bail on.  They are steel so noticeably heavier.  Quick links  are fussy to use: a small cheap one requires untying and tying and an big on still isn’t easy to clip into without untying.  And not free:  A rated quick link is still like $4-$6. Hardware store quick link is less.  

Immoral, douchey, cheap...that basically describes climbers so apt descriptions.

Also impractical...better to leave your least favorite carabiner that way you climb with useful gear not a quick link.

Karma: Used carabiner is $6-8.  If you leave one it negates the bad charms of your next booty.  Good karma is worth $7. 

Joseph Brody · · Campbell, CA · Joined Nov 2019 · Points: 59

I have only been climbing outdoors for 1-2 years, so I have never seen a quick link used for bailing.  

Seems like it would be a pain to use to save ~4 bucks on a carabiner.

Cherokee Nunes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

Well you're supposed to collect leaver biners so you can, you know, leave them somewhere else for your own bail or rap. But nowadays finders are required to mount an international search function to return that biner to its rightful owner. I know, I've see the idiotic lost and found traffic here. 

And clip UNDER the quick link not over.

Princess Puppy Lovr · · Rent-n, WA · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 1,756

One thing worth mentioning, is I have quick links on my harness purely in the event the anchor isn't properly equipped. I have also collected 10 bail quickdraws this year and have given quite a few back and most the time I don't need 25 quickdraws so I have no issue returning them.

Long Ranger · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 669
Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Clip UNDER the quick link, not over it.

This sounds like a good idea. Would it be sane to clip the quicklink itself? I'd hate to blow a clip because of a ql.

Cherokee Nunes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

I wouldn't. If you do keep your videographer on the ready you may make your own weekend whipper contribution!

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 984
Cherokee Nunes wrote:

I wouldn't. If you do keep your videographer on the ready you may make your own weekend whipper contribution!

Not sure I totally agree. Willing to have my mind changed though.

Clipping into the QL is definitely not ideal, but as long as it isn't too rusty or too small, it's unlikely to break.

On the other hand, since the QL is usually parallel to the rock surface, your quickdraw will be oriented weirdly, either with the gate facing the rock, hence prone to the gate being faced open, or away from the rock, which would increase the likelihood of your rope unclipping itself in the event of a fall.

Cmon people, just don't bail off quicklinks!

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 300
Adam Fleming wrote:

Add a space at the end of links to make them clipable hyperlinks.  

 First I thought you were talking about quicklinks, so I was trying to figure out how to add "space" to a quicklink, and what exactly is a "hyperlink", some sort of super quicklink? It didn't help since you said "clipable" instead of "clickable".

Eventually I figured it out.

Like many have said already, just use your least favorite carabiner or bail biner you found elsewhere. I often leave two biners in the two top bolts when I bail off a route, so if you climb in the Front Range, you may eventually come across a bail biner or two from me to add to your collection.

Tzilla Rapdrilla · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 970

If you own a stick clip, you would almost never have to leave anything on a bolt on a sport route to bail if you have half a brain.  Otherwise, leave a quick link, or biner and lower off.  Funny the critique here of quick links when many, many anchors have them.  

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "In case you werent sure why quicklinks as bail…"

Log In to Reply
Welcome

Join the Community! It's FREE

Already have an account? Login to close this notice.