Petzl Ride with Trigrest?

How do you think a petzl ride would perform on steeper snow and ice with a trigrest? I'd assume not as well as the gully, but with slightly better self arrest performance and overall better versatility at a lower cost? I haven't owned either

GULLY is a little more "aggressive" in both the shaft curve and the pick design, both of which, ceteris paribus, usually translate to better performance on the steeper stuff. The positive pick of the RIDE can often translate to better self-arrest performance than the pick design of the GULLY, an assertion that seems to be well borne out by OutdoorGearLab's "Self Arresting" notes in their axe roundup: See https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/snow-sports/best-ice-axe a little ways down the page.

The RIDE and the GULLY are the same length, and the weight difference starts to disappear if you add a TRIGREST. Note that the price difference starts to disappear as well if you buy the TRIGREST for the RIDE (it's included with the GULLY). Regarding "better versatility," it depends what you mean by versatility. Usually I would say that the more aggressive axe allows better versatility because you have an easier time climbing steeper stuff, both penetrating and removing; also, the GULLY allows for the installation of MASSELOTTES (Petzl's pick weights), while the RIDE does not. I'd probably give the edge to the GULLY in versatility, but your preferences may be different.

Pat Light wrote:

GULLY is a little more "aggressive" in both the shaft curve and the pick design, both of which, ceteris paribus, usually translate to better performance on the steeper stuff. The positive pick of the RIDE can often translate to better self-arrest performance than the pick design of the GULLY, an assertion that seems to be well borne out by OutdoorGearLab's "Self Arresting" notes in their axe roundup: See https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/snow-sports/best-ice-axe a little ways down the page.

The RIDE and the GULLY are the same length, and the weight difference starts to disappear if you add a TRIGREST. Note that the price difference starts to disappear as well if you buy the TRIGREST for the RIDE (it's included with the GULLY). Regarding "better versatility," it depends what you mean by versatility. Usually I would say that the more aggressive axe allows better versatility because you have an easier time climbing steeper stuff, both penetrating and removing; also, the GULLY allows for the installation of MASSELOTTES (Petzl's pick weights), while the RIDE does not. I'd probably give the edge to the GULLY in versatility, but your preferences may be different.

My primary application would be alpine rock and basic summer mountaineering, with an occasional (like twice a year) AI3 or steep snow climb, where it will probably get paired with a tool

Martin Brzozowski wrote:

My primary application would be alpine rock and basic summer mountaineering, with an occasional (like twice a year) AI3 or steep snow climb, where it will probably get paired with a tool

It's going to come down to whether you value the extra penetration performance on the GULLY vs the slight edge the RIDE might give you for self-arrest and weight savings (keeping in mind that the weight savings aren't as great when you add that 15g TRIGREST). Personally, if I were going to be swinging into hard alpine ice even a few times per year, I would reach for the GULLY because of the superior (for ice!) pick design, especially if I were going to pair it with something like a QUARK or SUM'TEC as you imply (I'd want both my tool and my axe to have similar penetration and cleaning performance). In my opinion, the penetration performance has a chance to be "more better" on the GULLY than the self-arrest/weight benefits might be on the RIDE, if that makes any sense.

Sorry that I'm not coming down hard in favor of one or the other; so much of this stuff comes down to personal preference and terrain. It's possible that someone would choose the GULLY and then spend a whole lot of time sliding down snow slopes wishing desperately that they had the positive pick design of the RIDE.

Also, I may have misspoke on shaft design --- it's possible they have literally identical shafts. I'll need to check on that. 

I guess my question then just comes down to how much worse is the gully at self arresting really? If it's marginal then gully makes more sense, but if the difference is noticeable, then ride would make more sense to me. If I'm bringing it on a alpine ice route, its also possible I'd give my partner an ice tool, and between the two of us will have 2 tools and 2 axes, then I'd just snag both tools for leading the ice sections and let my partner use both axes since he is following anyway. 

Martin Brzozowski wrote:

I guess my question then just comes down to how much worse is the gully at self arresting really? If it's marginal then gully makes more sense, but if the difference is noticeable, then ride would make more sense to me. If I'm bringing it on a alpine ice route, its also possible I'd give my partner an ice tool, and between the two of us will have 2 tools and 2 axes, then I'd just snag both tools for leading the ice sections and let my partner use both axes since he is following anyway. 

It is a significant difference. If played with them side by side for self arrest and the gully is consistently more difficult to self arrest with. You can put headweight on the ride and it isnt all that bad on alpine ice, i often pair it with a quark for easy alpine ice.

I think your choice of crampon, or lack thereof, also matters.

Self arrest is more important if you're not planning on wearing crampons, and in this case I'd go for a Summit or some alternative with a proper spike and a classic pick. I'd be more likely to use an adze in this case as well. 

If I'm planning on wearing crampons, then I'm expecting to be on steeper terrain and I'll feel more secure overall with a more aggressive pick like on the gully.

I used to have a Ride, but sold it and got myself a Summit and a Gully Hammer. Selecting between those two, or both together, and pair of Irvis Hybrids has been a pretty lightweight and flexible system for me. Anything more difficult and I'd upgrade to burlier crampons and two proper ice tools.

I have had them all. I sold the ride.  It's a good tool for occasional use when youre skiing.  The gully is a great tool for easy angled gullies- the head weight is a required addition for anything firm. If you are on snow and self arrest is your primary back up plan for any length of time, I think the gully will be hard to justify. It turns out that I gravitate to and used the Summit 52cm more than anything.  It's mega light and it's burly enough to do work.  I added a trigrest and it's worked great.  

Since I prefer a real tool over any toys I recently purchased a 52cm Grivel Air Tech Evolution to replace the summit. I think it's slightly heavier design, and steel adze are going to make it the tool I go to most.