Climb Up Ski Down Denali

Looking for guide to climb up and ski down the West Buttress of Denali in May - June 2021. Does anyone have suggestions? Most larger guide companies (i.e. IMG, RMI, AAI) do not offer the ski down option so any private guide suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

-G

https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/guides.htm

Complete list of permitted guide services. Everyone else is operating illegally. Give a call or otherwise inquire directly and I imagine you could find a service willing to arrange a ski descent, though there will likely be stipulations around making that happen.

Ide call BackcountryGear and ask for Rich, he's a local who has done it 1-800-953-5499

I'm no expert (haven't worked up there) but know a lot of people that do and I'm pretty sure the NPS doesn't allow guided ski descents.  I'd guess that anyone you find who says that they can do it would be doing it illegally.

Why hire a guide? Plan your own trip then you can choose your mode of transportation. 

Thanks for your input Climbing Coastie but I would still prefer to climb with someone who knows the mountain well. Sin Ropa - I'll look into AAI and Mountain Trip's private climb scenarios thanks for the ideas. Max Tepfer - So it is legal to climb individually but not with non=permitted guide service? This is a bit sketchy since any qualified guide (even if they aren't legally permitted to guide in Denali) could register for permit as individual climber.

Gary Wagman wrote:

Thanks for your input Climbing Coastie but I would still prefer to climb with someone who knows the mountain well. Sin Ropa - I'll look into AAI and Mountain Trip's private climb scenarios thanks for the ideas. Max Tepfer - So it is legal to climb individually but not with non=permitted guide service? This is a bit sketchy since any qualified guide (even if they aren't legally permitted to guide in Denali) could register for permit as individual climber.

As long as that qualified but unpermitted guide isn't getting paid for the trip it's legal. If they are getting remunerated in any manner (monetarily or otherwise), it's illegal. It's also very risky for the "not a guide" in many respects beyond physical risk (liability, career impacts, massive fines, prison time, etc.).

Thank you once again SinRopa and Derek Debruin for the kind information. For all the reason mentioned above, I'll stick to one of the 7 approved guiding companies and seek the possibility of skiing down at least from the 14 camp.

Background: I climbed Denali as an independent group of 3 in May 2017. We had skiing from the summit as a possible goal, but in the end we did not bring skis on our summit day (single push from 14) due to the fact that we had been unable to assess conditions higher on the mountain. We did a bunch of skiing for fun around 14k and skiied down from 14k the day after we summited. 

First, really question why you want to go guided. It's a lot of money (even more if you're doing a private group) and you should definitely question exactly what value you are going to be getting for that money. At the top of the list for me would be logistics and food/gear planning - they will give you a checklist and all you have to do is complete that checklist. If you self-organize there is a LOT of pre-trip work going into making sure you have all the right group gear and your food is planned out. Knowledge of the route and mountain is actually not really adding that much value in my opinion. The route is really obvious, crowded, and straightforward. The biggest value that a guide is adding is just making tactical decisions for you, eg. based on this weather forecast we should move up or stay put. But with that you also lose flexibility - guides will make extremely conservative decisions and you'll likely be on a fixed schedule. If there's a great summit window 1 day after your turn-around day, too bad you're going home. 

Above 14k camp the skiing is very serious. The most conservative line that doesn't require taking skis off is to ski the ascent route down to 17k camp and then ski the rescue gully down to 14k camp (the ascent route goes along a rocky ridge and then down the fixed line slope). The rescue gully is steep at the top and there are often several crevasses in the fall line below. You'd want to assess the conditions at the top before committing. I'd imagine a guide would have to deem the route in really good condition and you to have really solid ski ability before letting you descend it - could be unlikely. 

If they do require you to ski down roped from anywhere, it will be TERRIBLE. I don't think there's a way to make roped skiing "fun" in any sense of the word. Constantly trying to keep rope tension means you can't make real turns, it totally takes away the feeling of free movement that makes skiing fun. If you are looking forward to doing it on the descent, you will likely have sleds on the rope, which makes this all even worse. If all you end up skiing is descending from 14k roped up, you will definitely not remember it as a fond part of the Denali experience. 

So in summary I would say it might be worth giving the guide services a call and see what they say, but if you want to ski up there (and you definitely should!) it'll likely be more fulfilling to organize yourself.

Hey Ben! I couldn't thank you enough for your extremely informative response. Congratulations on summitting and skiing down from 14 Camp!! It sounds like an incredible experience and now I'm even more pumped up about it. To be frank, financing a guided trip is the biggest challenge since $13,000+ (including the $2000+ for winter training on Rainier) is currently way out of my budget range. I really like the idea of forming a group of climbers and will seek out potential partners on Mountain Project. May I ask how you were able to arrange your group of climbers? Do you have any suggestions about where to reach out? I tried unsuccessfuly to convince my dirtbag friends to go with me. Would love to find someone local to train with an go over logistics in advance. Thanks again for the post.

I remember looking through AAI’s options and I’m fairly certain they’re right it’s an option they advertise as an option for private trips somewhere on their site or forms

I went with two close friends who I had already done some mountaineering and lots of backcountry skiing with. If none of your current partners are interested, I would definitely try MP, maybe local skiing/climbing/mountaineering groups (Try FB groups maybe?). Looks like you're near Portland so I feel like you should definitely be able to find some stoked people. You also have the advantage of being able to practice some of this stuff close by on Hood potentially. Finding local partners is definitely ideal because you'll want to practice stuff together. In our case we practiced the sled-hauling systems, crevasse rescue, our full camp setup, and fixed line stuff around Tahoe during the winter leading up to our trip. We felt pretty good about all those systems before we left and that was a huge help when we actually got off the plane at Kahiltna Base.

Regarding cost, I don't know the exact figure but our costs were less than half of what it would have been guided. Biggest expense was the flights to AK, Flights onto the glacier, and a bunch of somewhat denali-specific gear (eg. 4 person expedition tent, ski oveboots, down pants, -30F bag, etc). 

I would highly advise reading a bunch of the many denali trip reports out there from unguided groups, especially those who were skiing. It will give you a sense of what to expect as well as some of the challenges and what you'll need to prepare for. 

Thanks Ben. Great advice. Your insights were really appreciated.