Down jacket for mountaineering

Hi there, looking for advice since I am the market for a new mountaineering jacket. 

My use would be 3 seasons (excluding summer) in the alps, at altitude, mostly mountaineering with some ice climbing and ski touring throw here and there.

So far I am using a Noronna Falketind Down Hood Jacket which is perfect for summer but let me feel cold many times during the 3 other seasons.  
I m therefore looking for something warmer, something between my current jacket and a full on expedition down jacket. 

Any ideas?
I was eying the Cerium LT from Arc and the Neutrino Pro from Rab, any experience with those?

Himali Altitude Parka is rad!

Clint Helander wrote:

Himali Altitude Parka is rad!

Thanks, never heard of this brand but it does look good.
It may be a tad too much down jacket for my use though. Also concerned with distribution network/availability and therefore customer support...

I keep two in my quiver that I really have enjoyed for the pretty cold and the super fucking cold.

Pretty cold is the Arc’teryx Nuclei FL, it’s the only synthetic coat that I’ve owned that’s nearly as packable and lofty as a down jacket. Comfort for me is around -15° - 10° C.

Super fucking cold is the Patagonia Grade VII, incredibly warm on the worst New England bitterly cold days and has a whole mess of pockets inside for your gloves and nalgene of spiked mulled cider. Comfort for me is around -25° - 0° C.

Both come with stuff sacks to pack ‘em down.

Jack Yip wrote:

I keep two in my quiver that I really have enjoyed for the pretty cold and the super fucking cold.

Pretty cold is the Arc’teryx Nuclei FL, it’s the only synthetic coat that I’ve owned that’s nearly as packable and lofty as a down jacket. Comfort for me is around -15° - 10° C.

Super fucking cold is the Patagonia Grade VII, incredibly warm on the worst New England bitterly cold days and has a whole mess of pockets inside for your gloves and nalgene of spiked mulled cider. Comfort for me is around -25° - 0° C.

Both come with stuff sacks to pack ‘em down.

Thanks! I didn't see the Nuclei FL, need to try it on to see if its not too heavy/bulky. The Patagonia one looks like a proper expedition jacket. 

I would encourage you to consider fill weight in your comparisons. For example the cerium lt has 3.3oz of down which will be no warmer than your norrona jacket whereas the neutrino pro has 8oz - Crazy warm! Expedition parkas will probably have at least 12oz of high fill power down. Based on what you described I would aim for something in the 6-9oz range. Other things to consider are fit and weather resistance. The sort of jacket you’re describing will probably be worn as an outermost layer so some weather resistance Is nice (pertex quantum or gore thermium for example). Also the only synthetic jackets I would consider warm enough for winter mountaineering are belay jacket styles. Hope this helps! Good luck on the hunt!

Kirk Anderson wrote:

I would encourage you to consider fill weight in your comparisons. For example the cerium lt has 3.3oz of down which will be no warmer than your norrona jacket whereas the neutrino pro has 8oz - Crazy warm! Expedition parkas will probably have at least 12oz of high fill power down. Based on what you described I would aim for something in the 6-9oz range. Other things to consider are fit and weather resistance. The sort of jacket you’re describing will probably be worn as an outermost layer so some weather resistance Is nice (pertex quantum or gore thermium for example). Also the only synthetic jackets I would consider warm enough for winter mountaineering are belay jacket styles. Hope this helps! Good luck on the hunt!

Thanks Kirk! It all sound like good advice! I agree that the Rab I mentionned does fit my criterias a lot more than the Arc one. Also agree that the best way to go is probably down more that synthetic.
Any specific models you have in mind or could recommend? 
Anyway, your contribution is much appreciated.

The only one I can recommend from personal experience is the Arc Firebee Ar. I know it’s expensive - I’m glad to be an employee :) Some jackets that look interesting to me in this category are: OR alpine down jacket, rab infinity and infinity light, rab electron, BA fire tower belay jacket, Patagonia Fitz Roy. Can’t say much else about these other than they seems cool on paper. Hopefully you can try some stuff on. 

Thanks again! I ll definitely have a look at those and try them on as much as I can but I will also definitely not drop more than 1 grand on such jacket ;)

Wait, you guys aren't wearing wool coats anymore??

Why down? I like synthetic since it can get wet. I currently use the Norrona Trollveggen (100g primaloft) as a belay/break jacket. If its very cold I wear a Arc'teryx Atom LT as the outer layer of my action suit. If there is wet or heavy spindrift/precipitation, then I will put a gore-tex jacket over the top of the Atom LT. This works for me in the Canadian Rockies in winter. 

Sam Bedell wrote:

Why down? I like synthetic since it can get wet. I currently use the Norrona Trollveggen (100g primaloft) as a belay/break jacket. If its very cold I wear a Arc'teryx Atom LT as the outer layer of my action suit. If there is wet or heavy spindrift/precipitation, then I will put a gore-tex jacket over the top of the Atom LT. This works for me in the Canadian Rockies in winter. 

The warm to weight ratio is just much better with down. Also, when you re using such a jacket it make sense that its too cold for the water to be liquid so I m not too concern with waterproofness even if many have some sort of coating/treatement nowdays.
As for your jacket I m gonna try the Norrona Trollveggen (but in the down version) this weekend so I may end up with this one. 

I use the Black Diamond Belay Parka. Its cheap and tough so I don't mind beating it up. It's synthetic and surprisingly warm. It's a bit bulky tho, would probably slim down with a stuff sack. For $250 you cant beat it.

Fabien M wrote:

The warm to weight ratio is just much better with down. Also, when you re using such a jacket it make sense that its too cold for the water to be liquid so I m not too concern with waterproofness even if many have some sort of coating/treatement nowdays.
As for your jacket I m gonna try the Norrona Trollveggen (but in the down version) this weekend so I may end up with this one. 

Yes but you still sweat, and if you're doing something that takes more than a day it's nice to be able to dry things out inside your jacket.

Isn't the whole point of a layering system to avoid sweating as much as possible? I get that 100% non-sweat is impossible but if you're sweating so intensively that your  down starts to get wet to the point of nonfunctionality I think you're over-dressed...

Victor Machtel wrote:

Isn't the whole point of a layering system to avoid sweating as much as possible? I get that 100% non-sweat is impossible but if you're sweating so intensively that your  down starts to get wet to the point of nonfunctionality I think you're over-dressed...

I think he means that he likes drying other wet items inside of his jacket, and with a down jacket that may not be the best idea because your wet socks, for example, could start to get the jacket/down wet

Right, fair enough. I glanced past that :)

@Fabian,

Are you looking for something to wear while moving? Or For something while stationary(Breaks, Belays, emergencys)?

Its more something for the approach, belay and winter bivouaking.
I went with the Noronna Trollveggen Down 850 Jacket; will post some feedback once I get to use it this winter.

If its really cold and I need a down jacket while moving/climbing I already have a (much) lighter one that is enough even for winter in the alps.

Check out The Himali gear and website....they are the real deal give back to support and have athletes that wear the gear and help with the design.....they are the real deal and the only jackets I wear when in Alaska or Colorado. 

Dude-

You don’t need a $200 plus down hoody.

Head to your local Nordstrom Rack. They’ll have these $50 off-brand down jackets w/ hoods. The one I have it called “Hawke & Co.” Totally generic but every bit as good as a $350 Archteryx jacket for any State-side conditions you’ll face. And if you get a hole in it (as I do regularly) you just patch it up (and the expensive ones get holes too, of course). Once great thing about having a $50 puffy is that you don't worry about climbing in it. I've had mine for four years now and I wear it constantly with my regular clothes and climb/mountaineer/hike in it dozens of times a year. No problems so far.

I’ve worn mine down to 0 and and below with wind and was just fine. Layer it (like with everything), don’t break an ankle, and you’ll be straight. The more expensive stuff is only expensive because of the lable. As I pointed out on here last year, a $50 Champion soft shell is the same thing as an Arcteryx, just $300 cheaper. 

Don’t let your dollars be cold and lonely. Save that money for more important gear. You could buy four cams with the money you’ll save.