GriGri vs GriGri Plus

Looking to upgrade my belay device. Are there any noticeable performance differences between the two?

Grigri + has annoying autolock while lowering/rapping.  Get the normal grigri. 

see: mountainproject.com/forum/t…

Anthony L wrote:

If you use skinny ropes, get the plus. 

The latest GriGri handles the same range as the plus.

Grigri versus Grigri minus is a more accurate title-

The features of the grigri plus are only helpful in a gym setting, to help them out with long term wear issues and first time belayers, it adds nothing that you won't grow out of needing within a session or two.

While this is an obviously biased opinion, one that isn't is that the grigri+ is in no way an upgrade to the grigri, it's just another option.

Go with the grigri

The Vergo is a better version of all the Gri Gris.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/climbing/belay-device/trango-vergo

The Vergo works well, but nobody you climb with already knows how to use it. If you plan to share belay devices w/ your partners, a GG is a better choice. I own both current version GGs. The Plus works fine with a little practice, but like the Vergo, it will befuddle your partners.  The main value IMO, is that it has a steel plate insert on the lip the rope runs over when lowering and rappelling.  The standard GG will wear out if you do a lot of rappelling with it (e.g., using it for TR soloing), especially on older ropes that tend to pick up grit.  If you're gonna be mainly single pitching or using it indoors, get the standard version.    

Erroneous Publicus wrote:

The Vergo works well, but nobody you climb with already knows how to use it. 

Yes, that is my experience as well. I do think that lead belaying with Vergo is much easier than GG.

But, to add to your comment - Vergo is really different from GG. Especially important - it loads differently from GG - climber's end comes out at the bottom, usage differs as well. I had to explain to "casual observers" that "my GriGri" is loaded correctly, and that I do, in fact, know how to use it. 

Edit - I start noticing more Vergos both in climbing gyms and outside lately.

amarius wrote:

Vergo is really different from GG. Especially important - it loads differently from GG - climber's end comes out at the bottom

It actually loads the same as a Grigri, only recommended to be mounted in reverse on the belay loop to takes advantage of the fact that on most harnesses, the belay loop is fairly stiff and doesn't twist very easily and thus provides additional friction for the Cinch/Vergo to lock more reliably when the load is upward. I've seen some super lightweight harnesses where this is no longer true anymore.

reboot wrote:

It actually loads the same as a Grigri, only recommended to be mounted in reverse on the belay loop to takes advantage of the fact that on most harnesses, the belay loop is fairly stiff and doesn't twist very easily and thus provides additional friction for the Cinch/Vergo to lock more reliably when the load is upward. I've seen some super lightweight harnesses where this is no longer true anymore.

I always prefer to follow manufacturer's instructions 

From here - https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0282/7557/2841/files/VERGO_INSTRUCTIONS_updated_address.pdf

amarius wrote:

I always prefer to follow manufacturer's instructions 

Well yes, Google search is free for everyone...  People have long belayed w/ a Grigri mounted in reverse on the belay loop and it's very much still safe to do so, even if Petzl doesn't explicitly recommend that. As for the manufacturer's instructions, it would help if Trango hadn't flip-flopped their instructions over time.

reboot wrote:

Well yes, Google search is free for everyone...  People have long belayed w/ a Grigri mounted in reverse on the belay loop and it's very much still safe to do so, even if Petzl doesn't explicitly recommend that. As for the manufacturer's instructions, it would help if Trango hadn't flip-flopped their instructions over time.

They did not flip flop their instructions for Vergo. Of course, you are welcome to find a copy of instructions that would prove otherwise, shouldn't be that hard since "Google search" is free.

amarius wrote:

They did not flip flop their instructions for Vergo. Of course, you are welcome to find a copy of instructions that would prove otherwise, shouldn't be that hard since "Google search" is free.

Technically Trango did not change the Vergo instruction, as Trango would love for you to forget about the Cinch, which functioned identically to the Vergo and had mysterious failed-to-lock issues (by some very experienced climbers not b/c they weren't paying attention) & was the device of choice in a fatal RRG accident:

Before:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100821172530/ trango.com/image/userfiles/… 

After:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130622124326/ trango.com/webdocs/Cinch-In…

MP thread discussion:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/107580480/trango-cinch-new-instructions 

Edited to add:

Trango Cinch/Vergo (& Faders Sum) do not belong in the same discussion w/ any other ABD on the market as the others provide significant friction w/o engaging the locking mechanism (i.e. a firm brake hand would be adequate in most situation). Unlocked, a Cinch/Vergo/Sum is barely better than just grabbing the climber's end of the rope.

The Cinch was an excellent device, too.

FrankPS wrote:

The Cinch was garbage too.

Corrected that for you.

Responding to the original question, re: GriGri+. I think it is really awesome for multipitch and well worth the extra weight.

I've come to really appreciate the "top rope mode" on the GriGri+, which moves the cam slightly towards the carabiner hole. This makes the device work much better when belaying the follower from above on multipitch -- it basically doesn't backfeed, even with skinny ropes, making it feel much more secure without adding friction. Plus lowering directly from the anchor feels more controlled (and likely still a bad idea). I also think the TR mode slightly reduces friction in normal tr scenarios, and makes it almost auto feed if you choose to use it for TR soloing (if I forget my microtrax or want to work a hard section a bunch of times).

Originally I hated the thing - bought it for the steel wear plate and mostly used it in the gym. Panic mode is super annoying but probably makes the devices safer.

Note that I bought it with a pile of totems when ordering from europe and only paid ~75. Doubt it is worth 150.

re:vergo/cinch: I personally know three people who were dropped on cinch's by otherwise solid belayers, probably due to worn pins. They apparently fixed this issue in the Vergo but personally I wouldn't mess with it. I know zero people dropped on grigris.

Jim Titt wrote:

Corrected that for you.

Wait, you mean there are different opinions on Mountain Project? When did that start?

I have both the new GriGri and the Plus, and the new non-plus one feeds slack easier, and lowers more smoothly. 

Ben Kraft wrote:

Responding to the original question, re: GriGri+. I think it is really awesome for multipitch and well worth the extra weight.

I've come to really appreciate the "top rope mode" on the GriGri+, which moves the cam slightly towards the carabiner hole. This makes the device work much better when belaying the follower from above on multipitch -- it basically doesn't backfeed, even with skinny ropes, making it feel much more secure without adding friction. Plus lowering directly from the anchor feels more controlled (and likely still a bad idea).

Seconded! TR mode is nice for bringing up followers.

When lowering direct off the anchor, I add a second biner to redirect the brake strand over the braking edge, as shown in this video:

https://youtu.be/i4EIhm8e054

Ben Kraft wrote:

Responding to the original question, re: GriGri+. I think it is really awesome for multipitch and well worth the extra weight.

I've come to really appreciate the "top rope mode" on the GriGri+, which moves the cam slightly towards the carabiner hole. This makes the device work much better when belaying the follower from above on multipitch -- it basically doesn't backfeed, even with skinny ropes, making it feel much more secure without adding friction. Plus lowering directly from the anchor feels more controlled (and likely still a bad idea). I also think the TR mode slightly reduces friction in normal tr scenarios, and makes it almost auto feed if you choose to use it for TR soloing (if I forget my microtrax or want to work a hard section a bunch of times).

Originally I hated the thing - bought it for the steel wear plate and mostly used it in the gym. Panic mode is super annoying but probably makes the devices safer.

Note that I bought it with a pile of totems when ordering from europe and only paid ~75. Doubt it is worth 150.

re:vergo/cinch: I personally know three people who were dropped on cinch's by otherwise solid belayers, probably due to worn pins. They apparently fixed this issue in the Vergo but personally I wouldn't mess with it. I know zero people dropped on grigris.

Interesting. Do you toggle from lead to top rope mode on your GG Plus between pitches?  I've adopted the modern practice of bringing my own personal GG (non-Plus, but I own one of those too) on multi pitch climbs, because I prefer it for belaying on both ends. I especially appreciate how much easier it feeds in "guide mode" than an ATC Guide or Reverso.  If the Plus is even better, I'll start bringing it on long routes. The weight difference is negligible to me.

Go for the hip belay. Never locks up.