Simul Rapping Set Straight

Let’s talk about a misconception with simul rapping.

I have heard so many times that if one unweights the rope or stands on a ledge while simul rapping the other rappeller will fall. This is not true.

While simul rapping the two people are each others counter weights. Also, while belaying the belayer is the climbers counter weight. But the belayer is standing on the ground/ledge. If a simul rappeller stands on a ledge mid rappel or gets to the ground first and stands on the ground they are still a counter weight. The key is still keeping the brake hand.

I think people are dropped shortly after the first rappeller gets to the ground. When I finish a rappel or finish lowering a climber the first thing I do is let go of the brake and pull out a bunch of slack to get the weight off of my partners and my harness. This is when the other rappeller is dropped.

Stand around all you want  just keep your hand on the brake.  

Use gri gris and tie knots in both ends of the rope.  And never do it without someone you are 100% confident with.  

Michael Abend wrote:

Let’s talk about a misconception with simul rapping.

I have heard so many times that if one unweights the rope or stands on a ledge while simul rapping the other rappeller will fall. This is not true.

While simul rapping the two people are each others counter weights. Also, while belaying the belayer is the climbers counter weight. But the belayer is standing on the ground/ledge. If a simul rappeller stands on a ledge mid rappel or gets to the ground first and stands on the ground they are still a counter weight. The key is still keeping the brake hand.

I think people are dropped shortly after the first rappeller gets to the ground. When I finish a rappel or finish lowering a climber the first thing I do is let go of the brake and pull out a bunch of slack to get the weight off of my partners and my harness. This is when the other rappeller is dropped.

Stand around all you want  just keep your hand on the brake.  

"Thank you for coming to my TED talk."

there's nothing to set straight about simo rapping.  Its completely unnessicary for pretty much anyone not trying to set a link up speed record. 

I was actually thinking about that the other day. Makes sense to me, though I have only done it twice.

I think that it’s important to clip both climbers together with a shoulder length sling.  This helps keep both climbers together and minimizes opportunities for slack to get into the system when someone hits a ledge or gets to the bottom and let’s go of their brake hand .  I think that it can be done safely and is faster but does add more risk. If getting stuck on a rappel in the dark is prevented the risk could be worth it.  If you are in a party of three or more it can really save time. You are counting on your partner to not let go.  If you are on double ropes than one climber is somewhat safer with the knot, not able to pull through the anchor. 

Daniel Cole wrote:

If you are in a party of three or more it can really save time. You are counting on your partner to not let go.  If you are on double ropes than one climber is somewhat safer with the knot, not able to pull through the anchor.

A party of three might be the best use case for simulrapping. The partner on the tube can stack their rappel above their partners, locking off the rope and preventing the catastrophic failure without the additional precautions necessary for a party of two.

I tried simul rappel last week for the first time because my climbing partner only has a GriGri. We tethered together like recommended here:

 I found it jerky and slow to set up, so we just switched to buddy rappel and I like that better.  

Joseph Brody wrote:

I tried simul rappel last week for the first time because my climbing partner only has a GriGri. We tethered together like recommended here:

This is not a reason to simulrap. Even if you don't stack your device to lock off the rope, you can just block off one side of the rope and send the grigri user first. Second removes the knot and raps as normal.

Michael Abend wrote:

Let’s talk about a misconception with simul rapping.

I have heard so many times that if one unweights the rope or stands on a ledge while simul rapping the other rappeller will fall. This is not true.

While simul rapping the two people are each others counter weights. Also, while belaying the belayer is the climbers counter weight. But the belayer is standing on the ground/ledge. If a simul rappeller stands on a ledge mid rappel or gets to the ground first and stands on the ground they are still a counter weight. The key is still keeping the brake hand.

I think people are dropped shortly after the first rappeller gets to the ground. When I finish a rappel or finish lowering a climber the first thing I do is let go of the brake and pull out a bunch of slack to get the weight off of my partners and my harness. This is when the other rappeller is dropped.

Stand around all you want  just keep your hand on the brake.  

Thank you very much for your thoughts on this. I would also like to add that the sky is blue and water is wet. 

Just putting what some have said into other words ...

Every time I rap to the ground, I let go.

Every time I lower my partner to the ground, I let go.

The relatively few times I simul rap, it isn’t enough to know to simply not let go. Something else is needed to thwart the consequences of that well engrained habit.

Like someone else said, use a grigri, tie knots, and make sure you're with someone you trust.  I simul rapp pretty regularly and many of the things that people in this thread seem to find difficult have never really been a bother.  Always weight the rope when you're both on, unweight together, and for added safety my partners and I will sometimes rappel right down to a station, clip in, and then unweight.  Totally unnecessary but another added moment of safety (though really, it shouldn't be an issue).  Also tethering is a nice idea, but I have found a lot of situations where that is impractical, impossible, or more dangerous than just being patient. 

Be safe, don't do something if you don't know how, and practice on the ground.  

FosterK wrote:

A party of three might be the best use case for simulrapping. The partner on the tube can stack their rappel above their partners, locking off the rope and preventing the catastrophic failure without the additional precautions necessary for a party of two.

Or.... You can just fix the rope with a knot, send two down at once with none of the simul danger, then the third unfixes the knot and double rope raps as normal. 

Fail Falling wrote:

Or.... You can just fix the rope with a knot, send two down at once with none of the simul danger, then the third unfixes the knot and double rope raps as normal. 

Yup, but the knot is an extra and unnecessary step, while stacking improves the efficiency (minor)and safety (if you believe in partner checks). 

I generally simul-rap every time I’m rapping, except when traversing during the rap as it’s easier to swing along the wall without somebody in your way.

I never understood the aversion to it. If you’re using your grigri and touch down before your partner, you essentially have them on top rope belay, and if it’s not a rope stretcher rappel, you could even lower them with your remaining rope.

If you unweight the rappel, your partner can only fall as far as you’ve unweighted it(assuming you’re on grigri) Try it. Get lower than your partner, and jump straight up off a small ledge. They only “fall” as high as you jump, maybe a foot or so.

Tethering is equally useless and makes simulrapping uncomfortable. 

Being afraid of simulrapping is like being afraid of toproping your partner through a grigri. 

Logistically, simulrapping is smoother and cleaner, and once you’ve started doing it, I couldn’t see a reason not to.

Thank you Eric. I 100% agree. 

The problem isn't ledges - the problem is terrain angle variations.  The instinct of reducing friction on lower-angle sections has counterintuitive consequences if your partner isn't on the same slope.  You're still ok if your device/rope combination has enough margin of braking, but marginal device/rope combinations become more dangerous with simul-rappelling.

You'll never experience any of this on dead-vertical rappels.  IMO simul-rapping your average 5.6 is more dangerous than simul-rapping 5.11, especially if your friction expectations are based on individual rappel experience for that same type of terrain.  Especially dangerous are low-angle ridges - they're dangerous even for individual rappel, and I suspect simul-rapping makes them more dangerous.

As some others have said, there aren't many good reasons to simul-rap. If you have a grigri or other single strand device, just use a biner block or similar method to rappel on one strand.

Dylan Pike wrote:

As some others have said, there aren't many good reasons to simul-rap.

Getting off a bigwall with impending bad weather or dark are pretty good reasons I'd say.

Enter everyone who think simul rapping is not faster even on bolted anchors with the most straight rap line you could imagine.....

Rob D wrote:

Like someone else said, use a grigri, tie knots, and make sure you're with someone you trust.  I simul rapp pretty regularly and many of the things that people in this thread seem to find difficult have never really been a bother.

Nobody is saying "simul-rappelling is too difficult". It's too RISKY for my risk tolerance in most cases, but it's not too difficult.

We can have conversations about risk without criticizing other people's risk tolerance. We can have conversations about risk without pretending that anyone who has a different risk tolerance than us is too stupid to do basic tasks.

Dead ain't faster INMOP well maybe it is faster but it 's not the kind of faster that I am into...  Not being afraid of the dark is a great place to start. allows you to be methodical and avoid the fck up that kills you.