Anyone Coached by Uphill Athlete or Other?

Just wondering if anyone here has experience with Uphill Athlete's coaching program or other virtual coaching.  I'd really like to hear any firsthand feedback as I consider this rather expensive option (cheapest is $350/month). Sounds crazy to me when you consider their 4 month minimum, but then again how much have I spent on ultralight gear and how much better of an alpinist has it made me? If Alex Honnold and Cody Townsend are being coached by UA, why shouldn't I consider it? Is there a better/more meaningful value out there somewhere? Another virtual coaching or in-person program that won't break the bank? I don't compete, but I'm serious about training for PNW objectives next summer.  I've read Training for the New Alpinism and I like the taste of that kool-aid. All you crazies pulling long C2C missions while I'm carrying my bivy kit around........I wanna be a crazy too 

I understand my other options as far as self-coaching and following a training plan. Just looking for feedback specifically on coaching and/or virtual coaching. Thanks. 

Hey Colin,

I know this is exactly what you didn't want (sorry!), but have you tried one or two cycles of self-coaching using TFTNA/TFTUA?  If not, consider that and see how it works for you before dropping the coin.

A partner of mine did one of their custom programs last year and in my opinion it wasn't worth it; it was pretty boilerplate out of TFTNA, wasn't well customized for his needs, he didn't understand the details of what they were trying to accomplish, and there was no easy way to make adjustments to the plan when life got in the way.  Actual 1:1 coaching might be more valuable for these reasons, but you pay for it.

I've been self coaching with TFTNA for a few seasons now and feel it's been fairly effective, I can share some spreadsheets/plans with you if you're interested.  I probably am climbing a lot of the same objectives as you so I can also chat about prep for those if you think it would be helpful!

Kyle Tarry wrote:

...have you tried one or two cycles of self-coaching using TFTNA/TFTUA?  If not, consider that and see how it works for you before dropping the coin.

Truth. It would also probably be super valuable to show up to a custom program with that experience and feedback from it. Otherwise, I expect the program you'll get will look a lot like what's in the book, because it's written as their standard advice. Good luck, let us know how it goes whatever you end up doing (just read TFTNA myself, trying to get up discipline to start a "program").

That sounds so retarded expensive, you have so many other options for half that or less.  IMO, the crux of this type of training is doing things regularly that are miserably hard and uncomfortable and you’ll only do them if a bunch of others are right there with you doing the same thing.  I’ve seen many over the years take up individual coaching and they’re usually the ones with egos that can’t handle failing while trying hard with a group - they’re rarely among the best.  To take the same lack of interaction to another level and make it virtual sounds completely useless.  There’s no secret to any of this, it’s just work.

Bill Schick wrote:

I’ve seen many over the years take up individual coaching and they’re usually the ones with egos that can’t handle failing while trying hard with a group - they’re rarely among the best.  To take the same lack of interaction to another level and make it virtual sounds completely useless. 

Wow, what an attitude.  Training, like learning, works best in different forms for different people.  Just because you didn't need a coach to become such an internet badass, doesn't mean it wouldn't work great for somebody else.

I worked with Matt at training beta for a month, less money.  What I liked with Matt was that I could discuss more than training, such as redpoint tactics, and having him review and discuss video of me on my project, to the value of replicas. And I did send:)

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Just because you didn't need a coach...

To be clear, I'm referring to being in a group - usually with a coach, always with other experienced people.  Let's say you want to improve "uphill" - coached options around here would be - for example - Mountain Strong, The Alpine Training Center, Boulder Track Club and many others - uncoached groups include the Incline Club, Boulder Trail Runners, the Sat Breakfast Club - etc etc - the top most expensive option probably at around $250 / month.

mike h wrote:

Truth. It would also probably be super valuable to show up to a custom program with that experience and feedback from it. Otherwise, I expect the program you'll get will look a lot like what's in the book, because it's written as their standard advice. Good luck, let us know how it goes whatever you end up doing (just read TFTNA myself, trying to get up discipline to start a "program").

Yeah, I half agree. Chicken or the egg, right? On the other hand if I hire a coach this training season and then self coach future seasons, I have the experience and knowledge from a professional to more effectively build my future programs.  Maybe the answer is a hybrid: first season self coach, second season professional coach, then self coach future seasons.

I hear you on the "Trying to get the discipline" part. Although not my primary reason at all for considering a coach, I'd certainly be committed on a different level after choosing to hand over that kind of coin. 

Bill Schick wrote:

That sounds so retarded expensive, you have so many other options for half that or less.  IMO, the crux of this type of training is doing things regularly that are miserably hard and uncomfortable and you’ll only do them if a bunch of others are right there with you doing the same thing.  I’ve seen many over the years take up individual coaching and they’re usually the ones with egos that can’t handle failing while trying hard with a group - they’re rarely among the best.  To take the same lack of interaction to another level and make it virtual sounds completely useless.  There’s no secret to any of this, it’s just work.

LOL! Not helpful. I've plateaued with the "it's just work" mentality. It's not that I can't reach my goals because I'm lazy. It wasn't until I read TftNA that I realized in some instances I was over training and/or under recovered. I'm not a professional athlete, but I know they don't train with the Rocky Balboa mentality that I once had. It is a science. Global warming is real, I might add.

Not to mention, the group training gyms you are referring to are not conveniently located for some people and may not be operating as such due to covid.

To your point tho, it's expensive. That's why I'm soliciting input.

snowdenroad wrote:

I worked with Matt at training beta for a month, less money.  What I liked with Matt was that I could discuss more than training, such as redpoint tactics, and having him review and discuss video of me on my project, to the value of replicas. And I did send:)

Nice, good to know! Good point about using your coach as a resource for more. I could be wrong, but I always thought of the Training Beta program as more of a platform for bouldering/cragging. I have endurance based goals centered around committing alpine rock objectives.

Honestly, I feel like Uphill Athlete coaching is better for elite athletes. If you're not a competitor/sponsored, then I think you can easily get quality coaching for much less. If you're in Colorado then places like The Alpine Training Center, Mountain Strong, and Kineo Fit are much better options and more affordable. Also check out Mountain Tactical Institute. My local University just opened a brand new Sports Performance center that offers personal training among other things for mountain athletes. (It helps living in a state with an outdoors lifestyle).  If nothing else you should at least own and read both of the Uphill Athlete books.

About four years ago I did private personal training with the coach at my local climbing gym. He was a competitive climber for USA Climbing, had a Master's in sports performance, was a certified personal trainer, and endurance athlete. We met twice a week for workouts for about 6 months and it was extremely beneficial. He programmed my whole week with different hiking/running/strength workouts. He tailored the workouts specifically for my mountaineering goals (Rainier, Denali) and was able to critique my form and watch me for all the exercises. This was huge as I'd never had experience with weightlifting in the past and had shit form.  The one to one in person experience was extremely beneficial. If my legs were feeling sore one day then he'd switch up the next day's program to be arms, etc. I also found that I worked harder during the workouts with him, compared to doing a program on my own. It was much cheaper than $350/month too.

I also used Uphill Athlete's 24 Week Mountaineering plan in prep for a big expedition, around week 10 of the program I developed Overtraining Syndrome and had to bail on the expedition. It took months of physical recovery and no running/hiking to recover. I'm pretty sure since the volume of running was getting so high I was overworking my leg muscles. They also have you doing barbells & squats, etc with heavy weight, which I think was too much for my body at the time. Because the plan wasn't tailored specifically to my abilities, and I didn't have a coach to talk to when my injury started, it made it worse. I was so intent on getting every workout in and not missing a week that I didn't listen to my body.  6 months later and I'm still not fully recovered.

I did the Uphill Athlete's Nutritional Coaching and it was not worth it all at. I got a boilerplate "nutrition 101" factsheet that you can find in any sports diet book. And half ass'ed email communications from the Nutritionist. This obviously is not the same as doing a training coaching program with Uphill Athlete, maybe the results are better. You'd be better off reading "Nutrition for Climbing" by Marisa Michael or "Peak Nutrition Smart Fuel for the Outdoors." for nutrition.

If you read the Uphill Athlete books, then it's really easy to make your own training plan for whatever objective. You'll learn how many times a week you need to run, steep hike, and strength train.  Then you adjust the volume for whatever you objective is and ramp it over X weeks until your climb.

sandrock wrote:

I also used Uphill Athlete's 24 Week Mountaineering plan in prep for a big expedition, around week 10 of the program I developed Overtraining Syndrome and had to bail on the expedition. It took months of physical recovery and no running/hiking to recover. I'm pretty sure since the volume of running was getting so high I was overworking my leg muscles. They also have you doing barbells & squats, etc with heavy weight, which I think was too much for my body at the time. Because the plan wasn't tailored specifically to my abilities, and I didn't have a coach to talk to when my injury started, it made it worse. I was so intent on getting every workout in and not missing a week that I didn't listen to my body.  6 months later and I'm still not fully recovered.

My friend who did the UA plan had a similar problem.  He was doing a lot of running (per the plan) but running just doesn't agree with some people, and he had all kinds of knee and leg pain.  I worked with him to help tweak the plan and convert a lot of the running to hiking and that helped a lot.  I think it depends a lot on your background and training style, he's tough and motivated so he just kept charging even when it felt bad.  Someone from a running background who has been overtrained before may have a better feel for when they've been doing too much.  I don't think this is a problem with the UA plan specifically, you'll get overtrained on any plan if you go harder than your ability to recover, but it's definitely an important thing to watch out for, and lots of people can benefit from a coach to help them back off when they are getting too worked.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

My friend who did the UA plan had a similar problem.  He was doing a lot of running (per the plan) but running just doesn't agree with some people, and he had all kinds of knee and leg pain.  I worked with him to help tweak the plan and convert a lot of the running to hiking and that helped a lot.  I think it depends a lot on your background and training style, he's tough and motivated so he just kept charging even when it felt bad.  I come from a running background and have been overtrained before, so I have a decent feel for when I've been doing too much and know from experience to back off before it causes a problem.  I don't think this is a problem with the UA plan specifically, you'll get overtrained on any plan if you go harder than your ability to recover, but it's definitely an important thing to watch out for, and lots of people can benefit from a coach to help them back off when they are getting too worked.

Thanks Kyle, it's nice to know I'm not the only one!! I totally agree with you, the UA Plan is a good one, it just wasn't good for my abilities/body. I have also used the Mountain Tactical Institute mountaineering plans and did not have any overtraining issues. Their plans are more strength focused, instead of running focused like UA.

Running can definitely be a cause of overuse injury, it's such a repetitive activity.  If you have the terrain, I think that replacing a lot of the running with hilly hiking would benefit a lot of folks (and probably have better specificity anyway).

I wonder about the Mountain Tactical plans.  I haven't done one of them so I'm mostly talking out of my ass here, but a strength-focused plan doesn't seem as appropriate for long endurance activities like mountaineering.  For hard mixed climbing or something, sure.  But I am not so convinced about it for 12+ hour sufferfests.  I guess I have drank the TFTNA cool-aid (which isn't really a new flavor anyway, Art Lydiard was doing similar things with runners in the 60s).

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Running can definitely be a cause of overuse injury, it's such a repetitive activity.  If you have the terrain, I think that replacing a lot of the running with hilly hiking would benefit a lot of folks (and probably have better specificity anyway).

I wonder about the Mountain Tactical plans.  I haven't done one of them so I'm mostly talking out of my ass here, but a strength-focused plan doesn't seem as appropriate for long endurance activities like mountaineering.  For hard mixed climbing or something, sure.  But I am not so convinced about it for 12+ hour sufferfests.  I guess I have drank the TFTNA cool-aid (which isn't really a new flavor anyway, Art Lydiard was doing similar things with runners in the 60s).

The Mountain Tactical still has endurance in the program, they just use mostly weighted box steps or steep hiking instead of all the running. An example week from their Rainier Plan has 2x 2,000 box steps w/25lb. 2x fast hiking with 35lb, and 2x 5mile run per week. They just don't utilize all the HRM and Aerobic/lactate threshold science that Uphill Athlete does. 

Who knows which methodology is right or wrong? It just depends on what program works for you I suppose. 

sandrock wrote:

 also used Uphill Athlete's 24 Week Mountaineering plan in prep for a big expedition, around week 10 of the program I developed Overtraining Syndrome and had to bail on the expedition. It took months of physical recovery and no running/hiking to recover. I'm pretty sure since the volume of running was getting so high I was overworking my leg muscles. They also have you doing barbells & squats, etc with heavy weight, which I think was too much for my body at the time. Because the plan wasn't tailored specifically to my abilities, and I didn't have a coach to talk to when my injury started, it made it worse. I was so intent on getting every workout in and not missing a week that I didn't listen to my body.  6 months later and I'm still not fully recovered.

I did the Uphill Athlete's Nutritional Coaching and it was not worth it all at. I got a boilerplate "nutrition 101" factsheet that you can find in any sports diet book. And half ass'ed email communications from the Nutritionist. This obviously is not the same as doing a training coaching program with Uphill Athlete, maybe the results are better. You'd be better off reading "Nutrition for Climbing" by Marisa Michael or "Peak Nutrition Smart Fuel for the Outdoors." for nutrition.

This is appreciated feedback! Thanks for sharing. I can definitely see what you mean about the drawbacks of a virtual/pre-determined coaching platform since you can't get direct and immediate feedback on super critical things like proper form, especially when the TftNA program includes a max strength period. The coach's adjustments to the daily workouts due to soreness/sleep/injury/going on a climbing trip etc are a big positives from my perspective.

I'm curious, what phase of the program were you in at week 10/24 when you developed overtraining syndrome?

Thanks for the beta regarding nutrition. I'll check those books out. I can barely afford to consider a coach let alone a coach AND a nutritionist haha

Colin Thompson wrote:

"I can barely afford to consider a coach"

There's your answer right there.

Seems like there is already enough info in this thread for you to train for the alpine rock objectives and save those funds!

Spend a few weeks learning about athletic physiology which really isn't rocket science. Then look at basic training protocols along with a little bit of periodization theory. Then look at your goals. How can you set up your training to meet those goals? Alpine rock climbing is about steady uphill movement (approach) and continuous climbing on the route. Think in terms of time, distance and elevation. Those are the fundamental parameters. The rest is dialing systems and making sure you are psychologically able to handle alpine settings.

It's pretty basic in theory. Some people need someone else to tell them what to do, some don't. Good luck!

Thanks to everyone who has offered their advice! I have decided to design and follow my own training plan based on the TftTA program without a coach.

Through my research, I reached out to Uphill Athlete with a lot of questions via the general inquiry submission on their site. I was surprised that Scott Johnston himself answered all my questions and then offered to chat with me on the phone. I ended up talking with Scott for 30 minutes or so. Then a week or so later I spoke with one of the Uphill Athlete coaches for over an hour. No doubt, the UA team is passionate about what they do and extremely generous with their time. I did not pay for these conversations, nor did I feel like they were trying to talk me into coaching. If anything, they gave me the impression that I am equipped to train myself. As a side note, I also got the impression that the UA team may be experiencing some growing pains and may be spread a bit thin....

I do believe that there is a significant benefit to hiring a coach, specifically for those athletes who don't have the time to learn all this stuff (it has been extremely time consuming for me) or those people who have been training for years and are trying to really optimize their training and need help squeezing that last 5% of performance out.  For me personally, I have lots of free time to figure this stuff out and years of training ahead of me before I'll come close to a plateau.

Over the past few weeks, I have also gotten much more familiar with all the tools available for planning and tracking my training progress. Spent a lot of time learning Training Peaks, fussing with my new GPS watch and manipulating spreadsheets. This process gave me the confidence that I could effectively plan, track, record and actually utilize the metrics. Trying to figure out how all this stuff works was overwhelming for me at first. If committing to a long term training plan, ya wanna do it right! There is still so much to learn, but I've got enough to get started. Cheers!