I am Just Going to Drop This One Off Here

Used 2climb wrote:

I have enjoyed watching the side stepping and attempts at explaining why some people are okay with the football player who put a cop on his helmet instead of the police victim. Some of my right wing friends have been promoting it and I chuckle when they are asked why it is okay for him to take a political side all of a sudden. On the other side I have enjoyed watching others try to explain why he is not allowed to do it. 

In the end we tend to default to accepting what we agree with as okay and that which we disagree with we will never support. 

I believe you’re referring to Alwyn Cashe on villaneuves helmet. He’s not a cop, he’s a black war hero who ran into save fellow soldiers while burning alive. He succumbed to his injuries and was given a silver star when many feel he should have received a Medal of Honor. That is what Villanueva was raising awareness for. 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

It’s contrarian TO YOU. To the millions of Americans who believe in Trumps message, it’s not. This is what you and all the other liberals fail to realize. Just because YOU think your side is correct, doesn’t mean they can’t have their view (even though I myself would deem their stance as “wrong”).

The gist always seems to be “yea but that’s different because what I believe in in right.” And that’s on both sides. Fucking take some LSD and see the truth already.

lol

Here’s a key point to keep in mind.  Some things are legit differences of opinion...like what’s better, Apple pie or French Silk pie.  No right or wrong answer (it’s French Silk though)

Then there’s a question of whether 2+2= 4 or 5.  
There IS a right answer to that. Let’s not conflate the two.

Ideologies - in principle or merely in effect - that devalue a human based on how they were born, are illegitimate as they violate both mathematical principles (Commutative and associative properties among others) and moral principles (the golden rule of do unto others...)

So, in some cases, there IS a difference.  The key is being sharp enough to know the difference.   Statistically, your ability to tell the difference dwindles as you go further to the right or left.  

The Righteous Mind

I hope more and more of these demonstrations in climbing areas take place. It's beautiful to see people making such large statements, especially when it causes this much unrest among the community. If anything, it's making the climbing community better, and that's awesome!

T Lego wrote:

I hope more and more of these demonstrations in climbing areas take place. It's beautiful to see people making such large statements, especially when it causes this much unrest among the community. If anything, it's making the climbing community better, and that's awesome!

Uhhg!  Please keep your “demonstrations” off and away from the Cliffs.  Access is tenuous and the risk to great.

djh860 wrote:

How would you feel if the sign said I love God!

What a handsome question. 

As an atheist, it wouldn't bother me. Just like the crosses, stars, moons, pentagrams, etc I see all over. It's called tolerance. 

Carolina wrote:

Uhhg!  Please keep your “demonstrations” off and away from the Cliffs.  Access is tenuous and the risk to great.

I welcome the publicity that would come from a public area being shut down from displays in support of human rights. Not with a massive flag and a canoe, but I will gladly continue advocacy for diversity at each every crag I visit. Access belongs to all of us, not just those you feel deserve it. 

T Lego wrote:

I welcome the publicity that would come from a public area being shut down from displays in support of human rights. Not with a massive flag and a canoe, but I will gladly continue advocacy for diversity at each every crag I visit. Access belongs to all of us, not just those you feel deserve it. 

Well you’re just screwing things up for the rest of the climbing community with that attitude. Please take your activism to another venue.  Perhaps a more constructive path would be devote your skills and time towards solving the problems you care deeply about instead of hanging signs in the woodlands

T Lego wrote:

I welcome the publicity that would come from a public area being shut down from displays in support of human rights. Not with a massive flag and a canoe, but I will gladly continue advocacy for diversity at each every crag I visit. Access belongs to all of us, not just those you feel deserve it. 

I think you're just lonely and crying out for attention. I'll be your friend. You probably don't have many.

T Lego wrote:

I welcome the publicity that would come from a public area being shut down from displays in support of human rights. Not with a massive flag and a canoe, but I will gladly continue advocacy for diversity at each every crag I visit. Access belongs to all of us, not just those you feel deserve it. 

Over the course of your life how often has something been taken from you and you then had a realization that you were wrong immediately after that moment changed your point of view? I am sure liberals and conservatives will change their point of view when their crag gets shut down because of a sign and magically decide to support black lives matter or whatever the cause. This plays into the larger concept of 'tearing down white privilege' we shouldn't try decrease the privileges to one person (unless those privileges actually obstruct the rights of another) but instead provide POC the same privileged that is afforded to white people (we shouldn't be advocating police start killing white people, but that police don't kill anyone). Your last point also undermines your prior point, if access belongs to all of us why should a few protesters be allowed to shut down the crag for everybody. 

T Lego wrote:

I welcome the publicity that would come from a public area being shut down from displays in support of human rights. Not with a massive flag and a canoe, but I will gladly continue advocacy for diversity at each every crag I visit. Access belongs to all of us, not just those you feel deserve it. 

Everyone at the crag is already accepting of diversity, its the default. Everyone already supports human rights at the crag, climbers are pretty cool. So some group "demonstrating" where you're just out enjoying the place sucks, brings the whole place to a shittier level.

Jared Willis wrote:

Everyone at the crag is already accepting of diversity, its the default. Everyone already supports human rights at the crag, climbers are pretty cool. So some group "demonstrating" where you're just out enjoying the place sucks, brings the whole place to a shittier level.

True.  Gotta admit, a demonstration down at The gun range would be both bold and more effective at reaching the “target” audience.    Haha. 

Jared Willis wrote:

Everyone at the crag is already accepting of diversity, its the default. Everyone already supports human rights at the crag, climbers are pretty cool.

this is not true

Jared Willis wrote:

Everyone at the crag is already accepting of diversity, its the default. Everyone already supports human rights at the crag, climbers are pretty cool. So some group "demonstrating" where you're just out enjoying the place sucks, brings the whole place to a shittier level.

No offense meant, but the opinions of those who have felt personally rejected by the climbing community carry more weight than your own on this topic. And plenty of minorities HAVE shared their experiences which include discrimination, harassment, etc. I appreciate that it's not a problem for you, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Some of these reactions are proof that the demonstrations are necessary to make people aware of the fact that climbing communities are not always all-welcoming and accepting of diversity. 

FrankPS wrote:

I think you're just lonely and crying out for attention. I'll be your friend. You probably don't have many.

Sorry I didn't get back to you right away, I was out climbing. I guess you were here fretting about your post limit as usual? I'm not sure how much value your friendship would add to my life, so I'll go ahead and decline the offer. It's funny, I figured you'd be a bit on the older side, but how many mature adults are out there still making "you have no friends" insults? 

T Lego wrote:

No offense meant, but the opinions of those who have felt personally rejected by the climbing community carry more weight than your own on this topic.

Why would one persons opinion matter more or carry more weight than someone else's? Hmmmm....

Jared Willis wrote:

Everyone at the crag is already accepting of diversity, its the default. Everyone already supports human rights at the crag, climbers are pretty cool. So some group "demonstrating" where you're just out enjoying the place sucks, brings the whole place to a shittier level.

Screams the incredibly diverse mid 30s white dude from Colorado on a forum full of other 20-50year old white dudes! I ACCEPT YOUR DIVERSITY! 

That's an easy one because one is affected and one is not.

I can hit softballs all day long. Not far but I can hit them. 

Any more slow easy ones?

There are people under 50 on here?

Gumby boy king wrote:

Why would one persons opinion matter more or carry more weight than someone else's? Hmmmm....

Because they have more experience with the topic at hand. My thoughts on how it feels to be a young black man growing up in the Midwest would mean a lot more if I weren't a middle aged white guy that lives in North Carolina, for instance. To say "everyone at the crag is on board with diversity" means a lot less if you are not part of a marginalized group that has experienced discrimination in those places. It's not saying his experience is wrong or invalid, but that it lacks consideration from those with different experiences. 

I have only ever seen welcoming and friendliness at the crags I've gone to. I've also seen lots of different kinds of people climbing and having fun. I know that I can't speak for every climber in the world tho.