An argument against stick clips
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First, I use my stick clip. Stick clips save ankles. Second, I started climbing at the New River Gorge. Many of the "easier climbs" had the first bolt 10-20' off the deck. Blowing the second clip could also put you on the ground. Sometimes, I would clip the second bolt to stay off the ground. |
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I think this needs to be brushed up a bit before you submit to The Journal of Philosophy. Glad you're seeking peer review on MP first. |
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Lol. I think it’s been almost a month since this argument played itself out on MP. But... you’re not new here so you know that. Just trolling? |
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actually stick clips are a product of good bolting. if you wern't such a gumby you would know this. If the 1st bolt is low enough to clip easily from close to the ground it only protects for about half a move and then you are right back in ground fall territory and if you blow the 2nd clip you will deck hard. If the 1st bolt is placed with stick clip in mind it helps make the 2nd clip safer and hopefully allows the 3rd clip to be safe. Always treat the 1st two clips like you would a solo. |
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Nate A wrote: I'm not sure if I've ever seen a stick click argument related to bolting (If so, it probably just went to just a typical bolting debate and I clocked out). Specifically, an argument where a stick clip shouldn't be a thing. Companies are able to capitalize off of this need.
If I were Trolling I would say "No"... but my real answer to your question is Yes and No. |
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how are bolters supposed to afford booze and cigarettes if they bolt “appropriately”?! |
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Bolts should be placed every 2 ft for the first 30 ft, got it. |
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Sometimes there’s a bad landing below the first bolt. Sometimes the climber is older and doesn’t want to risk an ankle injury that may take a long time to heal. The great thing about stick clips is they’re optional. I’d rather have someone use a stick clip who doesn’t want to risk a ground fall than have 3 closely spaced bolts at the bottom so someone who wants a little spice at the start doesn’t get it. I always laugh a little at people disparaging stick clips. Pure ego talking. And who cares what style someone else is using. I also laugh when people say SPORT climbing is supposed to have a certain level of risk. |
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Glowering wrote: Lol spice at the start. To each their own I guess. |
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Gumby King wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you, but appropriate spacing is like: Bolt 1: 8 feet off the deck Bolt 2: 3 feet above that Bolt 3: 6 feet above that Bolt 4: 6-8 feet above that Know- nothing punters would look at that and say "bro, that's waaaaaaay overbolted! Quit murdering the impossible for weakmos who just need to sack up. If you're so afraid of falling, maybe climbing isn't for you". Then they'd convene a bolt chopping party until their sport climb is adequately wild and bold again. Stick clips are the necessary evil to silence the (wildly lacking in perspective) environmental arguments, stave off choppers, and still prevent the kinds of injuries that piss off land managers. |
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Gumby King wrote: Many routes have the hardest moves right off the deck because of overhangs. So it's not always the bolting. I always use my stick clip now if there is any doubt that I won't make it to the first bolt easily or I know it's tricky. No one wants a broken ankle at my age. That might not just put me out of climbing, but out of hiking for good. Fuck that. |
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Stickclip? Pfffft. There's clearly a red ballnut underneath that loose microflake just below the first bolt. Climbers these days... |
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Tim Stich wrote: I fully agree TIm. I was in my mid fifties when I broke my ankle from a bad fall and had to have a rod put in place. Not fun. Rehab too a full season, and then came the fear of re-injury, so I use a stick clip a lot these days. |
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Gumby King wrote: I find NRG bolting standards to be just about perfect; unforgiving, yet ultimately (for the most part) safe, and rarely cruel. Significant runouts, though common, are almost always at least two number grades or more beneath the route grade. I can't count the number of times I've been on a climb, looked up in horror at the distance to the next bolt, commenced climbing, and, having finally arrived at said bolt thought "actually, that wasn't so bad". Most of the time, you realize you probably wouldn't want it bolted any other way. Of course, there are many, many climbs there that -require- a stick clip to be done safely, due solely to the nature of the terrain. Though most climbers these days will have a telescoping contraption at the ready, most climbs needing stick clips still have long branches lying somewhere in close proximity. I probably used actual sticks and climbing tape for 10 years before buying an actual stick-clip (which was still just a painter's pole with a spring clamp screwed on the end). |
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Tl;dr
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Petsfed 00 wrote: I don't usually bring a stick clip climbing because I'm lazy and my painter's pole setup is kinda shitty and heavy. I also don't like feeling bold right off the deck and always hope someone else brought a stick clip. But... I still prefer routes bolted with intent for stickclipping since it avoids what Petsfed describes; the kind of bolting required to keep everything super safe without a clip is just absurd and ugly (visually and $$$wise). It's nice to keep the bolts above eye level and tastefully spaced. So what, if you need a stick clip? |
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I feel like every 5.11 and harder on basalt(Vantage, Idaho basalt, Hawaii) is inviting you to climb them with out a stick clip. Decking is only fun when your wife is happy you finished a house project. |
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Gumby King wrote: Uhhh, no. Routes that have been bolted with the assumption that a climber will use a stickclip are safer and will have less chance of a groundfall than non-stickclip routes. Duh. |
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Somewhat off topic, but same logic of spacing applies to ice screws (ice “bolts”) For the most part, don’t bother to place that first one until 20-30 feet. You’ll just waste time, energy, and momentum trying “protect” everything lower |
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Pnelson wrote: Thats a big assumption! Its like assuming a climber will leave two pieces of gear when bailing on a trad route. |