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Like a Drago but with a lower volume heel
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I've been climbing in the drago's for over a year now and really love them but the heel does not work with my foot. I have tried several sizes of them, including my friends pair which is a full US size smaller, and I always have dead space in the heel. The forefoot is nearly perfect but could be a bit wider if I'm honest. Does anyone know of a shoe that fits and feels like the drago but with a smaller heel cup? |
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Sounds like the Instinct VSR will fit you really well though it's a bit stiffer than the Drago. If you like the front of the Drago, there's a good chance the new Booster will feel the most similar while having a little better of a heel, but not quite as thin of a heel as the VSR. |
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I believe Scarpa is releasing a low volume Drago this season to fix this very problem. |
Jordan Gans wrote: https://www.scarpa.com/catalog/product/view/id/18788/s/drago-lv/category/5/ |
X C wrote: I'd love to try this, it could be the solution for me. If the whole shoe is lower volume it may not work since I have wide duck shaped feet. I just need a smaller heel. |
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It sort of sounds like you're describing the Tenaya Mastia. The Mastia fits a wider forefoot than most Tenaya shoes. It fits a small heel amazingly well, even better than the Scarpa Instinct IMO. Under the big toe, the Mastia has a similar level of sensitivity to the Drago (maybe the Mastia is just slightly stiffer). The Drago is much softer on the outside edge (since Drago has no midsole except for under the big toe). The Mastia feels significantly softer than the Scarpa Instinct (incl. the softer VSRs), but it fits feet fairly similarly to the Instinct. |
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I feel your pain, literally. Finding climbing shoes for duck feet is a journey. I tried on dragos a year or so ago and I wanted them to work so bad but like you I found they were too tight on my forefoot and weird on my heel. In place of the drago, I would either 2nd the SCARPA VSR instinct or recommend the Tenaya Oasi. The oasi is technically a slightly slimmer shoe but I find it fits the shape of my wide forefoot really well and is quite comfortable. Like the Drago, the Oasis are downturned and quite sensitive. The oasi are built with a little bit of space in the back of the heel to allow your foot to expand into when you are standing on your toes, so it might feel like the heel is loose but I can generally heel hook well in them. I also own the scarpa vsr instincts and they fit my foot like a dream but lack some sensitivity in the front of the toe and smearing capabilities that the oasis offer. To give you an idea of how I deploy the two different shoes, I use oasi for gym climbing and bouldering and outdoors on technical limestone. I like the VSR instinct outdoors when I need to use little ledges and I really like them for overhung routes and my 40 degree home wall- they pull on the little nubbins really well. Hope this helps! |
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I, too, have wide forefeet and narrow heels, and have been on what seems like a never-ending, Quixotic quest for a well-fitting shoe since forever. I've tried on (or owned) pretty much everything out there at one point or another, and almost -always- have considerable dead space in the heel. And as far as width goes, sure, a shoe like the Drago (or Furia, in my case, which incidentally has a heel like a garbage bag) is soft enough that you can just stretch them out and make them work, but it's preferable when the shoe actually fits in the first place. Don't forget, the Drago is designated as a "narrow" shoe on the Scarpa website. Here are a few I've found that actually fit well out of the box... -Evolv Phantom: for my foot, the best fitting shoe I've owned since my old Acopa Merlins. Almost no dead space anywhere. The "Dark Spine" heel is no joke- it's shallow, narrow, and amazing. They're great for hard outdoor bouldering. Definitely stiffer than the Drago, but the midsole doesn't extend to the toe, giving it powerful smedge capability on overhanging terrain. They feel like you're wearing stealth bombers, but in a good way. -Women's Skwama: nice and wide forefoot, heel is not perfect but still effective, relatively affordable, a great all-around shoe. A bit stiffer than the Drago, but still very comfortable. I wear these more than any of my other shoes simply because they simply feel good. -Instinct VSR, VS WMN: I feel like all of the Instincts have the same wide forefoot (which is great), and just differ in the rubber/heels. I'd probably start with the VS WMN and work backwards. I don't love that they seem to use a different (less sticky) rubber for the toe patch, but it's a minor quibble. And if you really like the Drago, do check the LV. I've found that the changes in forefoot volume between most company's regular and LV models aren't usually that drastic (and you can just compensate with the strap), whereas the changes in heel volume can make a big difference-- thus, the Drago LV might indeed fit the bill. However, if you do make the switch to an _actual_ wide shoe, you'll at some point in the future look back on those tiny little Drago soles and wonder how you ever made them work. |
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I use the new Booster and women's Instinct VS. Both have lower volume heels than the Drago or Instinct. Just get one of those or wait for the LV. Also, I have tiny heels and tried: Solutions (men's and women's), Dragons, Teams, Hiangles , all Tenayas, and almost all Scarpas. Evolv rubber is trash and I didn't like Butora much. |
Karl Walters wrote: I'm sorry that's been your experience. I don't want to like it. My friends make fun of me when I wear it. And yet, though it brings me no pleasure to say it, on Southern sandstone in cool temps, I find it to be stickier than Grip 2. |
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All in good fun!
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Karl Walters wrote: How did you size the instinct and booster compared to the drago? |
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I wear the same size in all Scarpa shoes so far. |
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I've heard the Drago LV toebox is the part they changed the least, I believe it's mainly the arch and heel that are different. |
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Yah, the UP shoes just are not 5.10 and the quality is still lacking. Rubber is fine and I've done hard problems in them. None fit me as well as any Five Ten and while the Sirius is not bad by any means, it's not a Dragon. What I liked about the Five Tens was the feel of the toebox and fit of the heels, which they don't share. I get the feeling I like from the few Scarpa models I am currently using and it's enough to set and forget. |
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Don't have too much to add, just here to show solidarity with my duck footed brotherhood. Instinct VSR is most likely my next shoe. This is just secondhand rumour, but someone who raved about the Drago to me said the newer La Sportiva Theory might work. Do let me know about the Drago LV though, I'm really curious. |
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I have the same foot shape as many on this thread, but for one reason or another I also am never 100% satisfied with most shoes I buy; however, I’ve owned so many I can throw in some input. If you want to stick to Scarpa, the VSR like many others mentioned might be the best choice. The toebox accommodates a wide forefoot, with a less narrow heel. Your heel may be narrow at the back/Achilles, but wide at the bottom, which also causes heel cup dead space since it doesn’t fill the volume. Due to this I can usually pinch a “bag” under the heel, and it will ultimately peel the shoe off on a hard heel hook. If you try to size down to make them work, you end up with deadspace under the midsole. VSR is my “rigid” shoe for indoor/outdoor. For a soft shoe, the Drago, every variation of the Furia, and Chimera were non-compatible no matter how hard I tried to make them work. However, the Furia Air is the exception. I took a chance on it a couple weeks ago, and because it’s so soft and elastic, it actually fits my foot completely. The heel isn’t perfect, but there’s no troublesome deadspace underneath, and toebox conforms perfectly. As far as non-Scarpa, the Evolv Phantom and Agro have fit 100%, and while many shit on the rubber quality, it’s served me well, as well as Woods and Robinson on their V15+ sends. Hey, at least it’s not SoiLL... |
D Elliot wrote: I have the exact same problem with the Instinct. They wrap around the sides of my ankle perfectly and seem like a great fit, but there is some deadspace underneath the heel/mid foot. I thought it was maybe because I was trying them way too downsized it was arching my foot up and trying the softer VSR (given I've only tried the VS) less downsized more would alleviate it a little, but it would probably just transfer the dead spot more under my heel than my mid foot, like you point out. I'll look out for this whenever I get back to trying on shoes. Like your experience with the Furia Air, the uber soft La Sportiva Maverink worked great on my foot which might say something out the duck foot shape and soft shoes. I didn't find Evolv rubber that bad (won't expand as I don't want to clog this thread), but in their more performance line I only got to try the X1 which had too deep of a heel cup. The Agro was on sale recently and I passed because I can't try them locally and wanted to move from Evolv, but your post makes me regret not taking a chance on them a bit, as I've seen lots of people praise their higher-end shoes like the Oracles for example. |
Mark Paulson wrote: I have tried stealth C4 and Trax SAS rubber on the same shoes and did not notice a difference in performance. I have one pair of shoes with Vibram XS grip and that rubber feels like its coated in Teflon compared to Evolv's Trax rubber. I think most people's opinion on Evolv's rubber stems from experience with their older rubber compounds which were not as good. Trax SAS and XE now are fantastic rubber compounds. |
D Elliot wrote: Get the VSW, which is not the same as the VSR. It's what I have and recommend for smaller heel volume. Scarpa confirmed the heel is narrower than the VSR. Same goes for everyone else complaining about VSR dead space. I have tried all the Scarpa shoes and that and the Booster are the only 2 with zero space anywhere in the heel Besides the rubber quality, I find the Evolv shoes all feel too thick and clunky. Like if you made a Solution less sensitive. I love that Scarpa produces shoes with a high degree of feedback and sensitivity, which works really well for me. Others are different of course. |
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Oracles have the same “dark spine“ heel as the Phantom, but the insert is a little thicker. I got a pair of Oracles -just- for critical heel hooks, when everything else would just pop off my heel. I can honestly say they were the difference between sending and not sending on -many- occasions. I never loved the Oracle toe, however, so I was pretty psyched that the Phantom fits me so well. |
