car camping in Mount Washington Valley

Hi all, I want to spend a couple of nights up in the area this fall. Somewhere within a few miles of the MW trails. What I do not want to happen is to be busted at 2am by cops or FS folks. So, anyone know of sites where I will not be bothered by "the authorities"?

hector galbraith wrote:

Hi all, I want to spend a couple of nights up in the area this fall. Somewhere within a few miles of the MW trails. What I do not want to happen is to be busted at 2am by cops or FS folks. So, anyone know of sites where I will not be bothered by "the authorities"?

I regularly sleep in my car at trailhead parking lots and have never been bothered by the cops. I actually remember one time when a cop car was making the round of the parking and they didn't bothered us even tough it was clear people were sleeping in the car by the condensation on the windows. Last time I did it was last spring at the Zealand trailhead parking, but I did it at leats 3 times for the presidential traverse, sleeping at the Appalachia parking. I can't find anything in my guidebooks confirming whether the practice is accepted or not, but based on my personnal experience I'd say you'll be fine.  

While Pierre is correct you can normally get away with parking at a trailhead, it isn’t technically legal.

given this is basically the busiest summer for the area (according to USFS numbers) I’d recommend not doing this. You will either he asked to move in the middle of the night, or if you have been drinking get a summons as it isn’t safe for you to drive. (Also remember Marijuana is illegal and a federal charge on USFS land).

There are dispersed areas that allow you to car camp. Call the Saco ranger station for clarity as to where you can camp legally as it isn’t super easy to find online. please practice LNT and clean up your garbage, poop, etc(.

If you want specifics and not call the ranger station, I can ask one of the workers to send me a list to pass along. 

Ive almost always gotten away with sleeping in my car in WMNF trailheads, even in Pinkham notch. However this year the only time I tried (Olivarian Brook Trailhead, super empty) I got busted just as I pulled in the lot at 11 PM. I think they’re just cracking down real hard this year.

Come winter and I’m sure it’ll be fine though. 

A little bit of research on the web will point to a few possibilities

Extensive rules for those interested:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5363715.pdf

Trevor Wassel wrote:

There’s dispersed camping on Jefferson notch road near there.  As far as trail heads and parking lots in North Conway and on route 16. You can leave your car overnight at trailheads when you’re backpacking. So as long as you are inconspicuous, it shouldn’t be an issue.  I’ve parked in the Wildcat parking lot before without issues.  Idk the actual law but worse that’s ever happened to me is I’ve been told to move. 

Previously it was you were told to move. But a the fine is like $160.

Given the amount of out of bounds camping this year and other issues. You are far more likely to get a fine this year and get hassled.

Bottom line is the same people who have to drive around and bust you for breaking rules are the same staff that help with SAR and carry outs. You aren’t making climbers or outdoors people look better by willingly violating rules that are designed to cut down on impact to the areas

Trevor Wassel wrote:

I’m all for trying to do the right thing to cut down impact and follow the rules.  But if it isn’t explicitly posted “no car camping”, and you just show up after dark to crash in your car and get a jump start to get up at 5am. Then I don’t see the harm done. 

I normally don’t see signs up that say don’t rap bolt established climbs or chip holds. But it seems pretty easy to understand

It’s a rule everywhere in the Forest and clearly labeled on the USFS website and it is the are used called a forest protection area (R9-22-19-02 & R9-22-19-31 & R9-22-19-04) basically No camping 1/4 mile of a road, trailhead, etc, etc. fine is up to no more $5,000.

Your approach is why certain areas are having parking issues. (Climbing examples: Whites ledge & CMC crag) are having issues because people are parking at what they consider a trailhead and the Rangers can’t respond to every call there so now the parking area is mostly signed with no parking signs (this includes people sleeping in their car on private property).

This issue is also happening in other areas off USFS land near Humphreys ledge and Saco crag. There is talk about shutting down these parking areas permanently because people are deciding to sleep above or below the crags or in their car on the side of the road where it is clearly not allowed. This directly impacts the entire climbing community in the area.

While you don’t care. Spreading the word that it “should be ok” online just creates more issues because there are not x2-100 more people who have the idea.

I assume you aren’t actually a NH local. So when your selfish decisions limit access you will move back to wherever you came from (likely Mass or NY) and people who have spent their time bolting, clearing ski Glades and helping with trail Maintenance will be the ones who pay the bigger price.

If you are a local , you live in the area  and aren't sleeping in your car  by the side of the road.

Trevor Wassel wrote:

Hahaha, in all seriousness the struggle has been real.   Sometimes sleeping in your car is a real situation. 

A local is someone who has a connection to the community. I don’t drive to your hometown and throw garbage on your lawn and sleep in front of your suburban house (ironically googling your name and MP town shows you are actually from suburban Massachusetts).

Being from Lebanon doesn’t make you a local to the MWV. I would expect someone from Lebanon to call me out if I was clearly violating rules that effect their possible access. if someone from Gorham drove down and parked overnight in front of Cathderal they would be more ignorant because they have zero excuse to do so. Same goes for the people that feel the need to spray paint swimming holes and leave their beer cans sitting along the river/crags. Other than a sense of entitlement, I don’t see why someone can’t spend 5 minutes and make a phone call to find a legal spot to sleep.

Bend, OR, Mammoth/Bishop, CA and a ton of other small mountain towns are all limiting access and free dispersed camping because of abuse by visitors that piss off the local taxpayers/businesses. I don’t think anyone that cares about their community wants that to happen to their town.

Trevor Wassel wrote:

I agree entirely about the having connection to the community and the leave no trace.  And if someone is spray painting and littering at the crag then I 100% agree they shouldn’t be there.  But car camping isn’t a sense of entitlement.  If someone was being disrespectful to the area they shouldn’t be there car camping or at the area in general.  But really it’s a matter of money.  When a ski bum or dirt bag is spending weeks on the road, paying a few bucks a night just to sleep adds up quick (and free legal places are difficult to come by in the east).  A quick car snooze does no more damage than the way you leave your car in the parking lot when you camp in the woods.  If someone wants to park on the street in front of my house in Ashland and catch some shut eye for one night and be gone in the morning it wouldn’t bother me.  Also a quick look at your profile looks like your not a New Hampshire native yourself.  But that doesn’t matter because I’ve always heard the saying “if you’re born in New Hampshire you’re lucky, if you move to New Hampshire you’re smart”. 

Actually I have lived on the road for over a decade (because I traveled 9+ months a year for work). But I have been a taxpayer for two years in the Valley as this is the only place I have called home since I was under 18.

Just imagine 10+ years living in a car and never felt the need to sleep illegally and pretend I couldn’t afford to drive 15-30 minutes to a legal spot. I always managed to find free legal places to stay (including in NH).

Or maybe it’s because I know all the people at the Forest Service that cleanup up after the hordes of people that sleep at trailheads or on the side of the road and leave their trash and shit in areas that are “closed to camping”. In return they get screamed at when they can’t get to help someone fast enough, or threatened by people during closures when asking them to leave.

There’s a reason why towns are cracking down on free camping. My last winter in Bishop/Mammoth I watched people destroy the privilege and the same thing is potentially happening here (like I said, people have voiced closing parking areas because of stuff like this and there are already No parking signs At anytime going up near certain areas).

Also, while you may do “a quick snooze”. There are plenty of people sleeping at trailheads, having fires and other stuff and saying “I heard it wasn’t a big deal to Car camp here”. Or there was 4 people sleeping at a trailhead all weekend and the spot only holds 4-5 cars.

If you want to discuss how you feel this issue is stupid. I am sure a few of the Rangers would love to explain how this idea is abused all season long. 

Say there are 2,000,000 visitors a year. Evenly that is 5,479 people a day. (According to the internet it’s actually 6,000,000+ visitors this year).

If .05% of them sleep at trailheads that is 28 people (say 14 cars total). Given most of those people are weekend visitors that would mean about 28 cars sleeping at trailheads in the WMNF in a weekend. This wouldn’t include people who hike the 1/4 mile to camp legally at those spots or those who stay legally at dispersed sites.

See how it becomes a problem when it isn’t just 1 Person?

Trevor Wassel wrote:

Hahaha, in all seriousness the struggle has been real.   Sometimes sleeping in your car is a real situation. 

https://www.waystationnh.org 

I don't think they provide housing but could probably point you in the right direction. Good luck. 

Insert name wrote:

the hordes of people that sleep at trailheads or on the side of the road and leave their trash and shit in areas that are “closed to camping”

That is clearly unacceptable. But not everyone behaves that way ...

theres something to be said for a spending a significant amount of time in the area to get to know it more intimately. you can sniff out spots that are quiet, secluded, not illegal, low impact and more or less your own, whether you're a "local" or not

Trevor Wassel wrote:

If paying taxes for two years and calling this place your home since 18 is all it takes I think I’ve got you matched, mr gatekeeper.   But as far as the overcrowding goes I agree.  There are overcrowding issues in parts of the whites.  But that’s been a complaint of people for a long time and always will be.  I feel like usually when I hear of issues regarding the crowds it’s towards the summer traffic in center harbor or the cars parked on the road at Diana’s bath.  Until today I’ve never really heard of an issue in an excess of car campers (or regular campers).  It’s more the bottleneck tourist traps spots that get the attention and cause frustration.  

First, I am probably Atleast 10+ years older than you.

Second, you are the one who literally is telling people it’s acceptable to break the law.

The whole point of mentioning being a local was that your attitude is what is possibly closing parking areas (I named them before). While you don’t give a shit about that, plenty of others do.

Every conservation group like the access fund ask you not to violate these laws because it impacts climbing areas. Obviously you aren’t really a climber according to your handful of posts, so you don’t care. But if it starts to effect glades, maybe then you will give a shit about something other than the false sense that you are a dirtbag who can’t afford a phone call to the ranger district.

I’m sure the USFS districts will love that fact that you are telling people it clearly is no problem to violate their rules on forest protection areas. Considering Atleast two of the workers have read this post, it’s makes you look like a classy individual.