Mussy hooks???

Last season, I was at City of Rocks when the guys were replacing hardware on the extremely popular rollercoaster wall, at Bath rock. First, thank you! And I've made my ASCA contribution.

That said, I certainly haven't run into mussies much, so I'm guessing maybe other noobs are unfamiliar with them also. The threads on here are old, so here's a new one to maybe help keep people safe.

Basically, what should a new(ish) climber know about mussy hooks? Especially with the ethic changing to it being okay to lower off of fixed hardware?

Thanks! OLH

Lower off them to clean the route when you're done, don't toprope off them. If they were put there by ASCA volunteers they likely have rated gates on them, so just treat them like fixed carabiners that are part of the permanent anchor. If they don't have gates, or weird folded steel gates, they are likely hardware store mussies, which are strong enough but wear out more quickly. 

If they're worn, check to see if they have sharp edges before you lower off them. If they are sharp enough that you're worried about it, just leave a carabiner to lower off instead. It's worth the eight bucks or whatever to save your rope.

So how would you recommend top roping one of these routes? Clip something to whatever holds up the mussy hooks? These are not hardware store, but that certainly could happen elsewhere. What are the "gotchas" to watch out for, if you do encounter these, especially if there are some older, or non ASCA ones lurking? 

Just a little nit picking on that video:

If leading, once you have clipped one quick draw to a bolt, clip your rope to the draw, then continue setting up your anchor.  If you are going to build a master point, quad, etc, clip in with something before proceeding.  No need to be effing around at the anchor unprotected.  

Might be a better question for a Horseshoe canyon specific thread, but are people cool with toproping through the mussies at the North Forty? Last time I was there a party saw me setting up a anchor with my draws and they told me it's okay to toprope on the mussies (only at HCR, not elsewhere). They said the staff is good with it and uses the climbing fees to regularly replace them as they wear out. I forgot to ask at the trading post before I left though.

Thanks OLH for asking this; I bet more were wondering but didn't want to ask (me).

Eric J wrote:

Might be a better question for a Horseshoe canyon specific thread, but are people cool with toproping through the mussies at the North Forty? Last time I was there a party saw me setting up a anchor with my draws and they told me it's okay to toprope on the mussies (only at HCR, not elsewhere). They said the staff is good with it and uses the climbing fees to regularly replace them as they wear out. I forgot to ask at the trading post before I left though.

Yes, the HCR staff has said that. They do it so their guides can lead a route and not have to go back up to clean the anchor after clients are done toproping.

However, it’s a bad practice to teach the friends you go out climbing with, so I wouldn’t make it a habit even at HCR or people will think it’s fine to do anywhere

Has anybody else noticed that mussy hooks often have a sharp edge on the underside of the gate?  Makes me wonder if they ever damage any ropes when the tail whips through.  

Another worthwhile video that addresses mussy hooks.

Jeez

You come across an anchor with two Mussy Hooks, clip them and lower to the ground!  That’s it, no other instruction required!

Plus that’s what the installer of the Mussy Hooks had in mind....

Anyone have any good method for informing people not to TR off mussies... I'd prefer not to Karen the issue on the ground, but I'm noting a lot of it?

Sam Ryan wrote:

Anyone have any good method for informing people not to TR off mussies... I'd prefer not to Karen the issue on the ground, but I'm noting a lot of it?

If it bothers you, buy a few sets and replace them as needed.

Hi, Sam,

Interesting that you bring this up today because I had a great interaction this weekend at the City of Rocks about this very topic.  I had only ever came across Mussy Hooks a couple of times before, and I was told (erroneously) that they were designed to just clip into and go even if you were going to do a TR session.  So at the City this weekend a very polite climber noticed we were TR'ing off Mussies and just casually said that even though Mussy Hooks seem really durable they still wear with frequent use, and that, just like any other type of permanent anchor, we should consider using our own gear to TR.  He pointed out that the real benefit with Mussy Hooks is not so much about being more durable but about being easier to clean (just clipping instead of threading the rope through chains).  He didn't come off as a dick or condescending, didn't press the issue, and just kind of explained things.  So now I know (and knowing is half the battle if I recall my G.I. Joe).

I'm not sure where the misinformation began, but I've heard from several experienced climbers that you don't need to use your own anchors with Mussy Hooks.  But when you reflect upon it the logic doesn't hold up.  I think the main thing to point out is that these should be treated just like any other permanent anchor: cheaper for the climbing community to wear out your own gear while TR'ing rather than the permanent anchor that is more costly and requires someone's time and effort to replace.

Alec Baker wrote:

If it bothers you, buy a few sets and replace them as needed.

What a great idea Alec, where can we find them?  ClimbTech the only maker of wiregated climbing specific mussies I know of, is out.  Every climbing shop in and around the denver area is out.  My take away is that maybe this rare bit of climbing equipment that can offer years of service could be preserved, then maybe when we find other routes in need we could use new mussies on those routes?

But I guess there is the 'ol maxim of just use everything up for the sake of one's own convenance.  I mean I'm just coming back to climbing after a few decades, is that how things are done now?  Can I leave beer cans at the crag too?  Maybe a big juicy turd right off a belay station?

Exiled Michigander wrote:

Hi, Sam,

Interesting that you bring this up today because I had a great interaction this weekend at the City of Rocks about this very topic.  I had only ever came across Mussy Hooks a couple of times before, and I was told (erroneously) that they were designed to just clip into and go even if you were going to do a TR session.  So at the City this weekend a very polite climber noticed we were TR'ing off Mussies and just casually said that even though Mussy Hooks seem really durable they still wear with frequent use, and that, just like any other type of permanent anchor, we should consider using our own gear to TR.  He pointed out that the real benefit with Mussy Hooks is not so much about being more durable but about being easier to clean (just clipping instead of threading the rope through chains).  He didn't come off as a dick or condescending, didn't press the issue, and just kind of explained things.  So now I know (and knowing is half the battle if I recall my G.I. Joe).

I'm not sure where the misinformation began, but I've heard from several experienced climbers that you don't need to use your own anchors with Mussy Hooks.  But when you reflect upon it the logic doesn't hold up.  I think the main thing to point out is that these should be treated just like any other permanent anchor: cheaper for the climbing community to wear out your own gear while TR'ing rather than the permanent anchor that is more costly and requires someone's time and effort to replace.

Shawn you're a damned mensch, 

This is the reason why I asked, because someone might have a good way to broach the subject in a non-hostile way, for the benefit of everyone.  You did that and I like the approach, you being willing to admit what you didn't know really drove it home.  Sincerely man, thank you for taking the time.

Sam Ryan wrote:

What a great idea Alec, where can we find them?  ClimbTech the only maker of wiregated climbing specific mussies I know of, is out.  

ASCA buys them in bulk, you can ask them for a few. Climbtech does get them in stock every couple months (they had 100+ a couple weeks ago), and if you email them theyre usually happy to tell you when they might be back in stock. 

Some other options:

https://www.team-tough.com/10-mm-closed-eye-wire-gate-carabiners

https://usstainless.com/hardware/spring-hooks/stainless-steel-316-spring-hook-carabiner-3-8-10mm-marine-grade-safety-clip/ 

https://fixehardware.com/index.php/fixe/climbing-hardware/anchors.html 

ClimbTech Mussey Hooks are available at sportbolting.com

Don't climb above the mussy hooks, since there is a failure mode where the rope can come unclipped.  So you do still need to be careful in some situations when cleaning the route and lowering off, since a new climber in Alabama died from this recently.  The video at this link explains it well and there is also a tread discussing it on MP.

https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/17aaz4q/accident_analysis_regarding_recent_death_in_sand/

 Big fan of Mussy’s but every type of hardware has a drawback of some kind.

Karl Guthrie wrote:

ClimbTech Mussey Hooks are available at sportbolting.com

https://sportbolting.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/divi-cart-pro-product-57.webp

still got this when viewing the cart...

If the anchors have long enough chains, I like adding my own locker between the fixed hooks if I know I'll be taking a few toprope laps. Clipping both hooks with the locker a few links up keeps the majority of the weight/wear off the hooks while climbing and doesn't require coming out of the anchor to clean.