Highlands, NC cliff not in MP or guide books

There is a cliff in Highlands with a small gravel parking lot, short trail to bottom of cliff and bolts on the cliff. My parents have a place there and me and my climber partner are heading up there next week. I would love to get some beta on this place if anyone has it.

Most of the stuff there isn’t on MP or books.  Remember the #1 Cashiers climbing rule.

Quick tip. You'll need two ropes to get down from many of the routes

The cliff is called Sagee, more than likely. There are others like it. Just take two ropes and some bail biners and start on the lower-angled, slabbier-routes. Be prepared to down-climb or bail when things get spicy. The steeper routes in the middle are harder.

Jonah Husak wrote:

Would anyone mind giving beta on the areas? I live nearby and would be stoked to try some new crags out!

Same. I live really close to this place and would like to know what I'm climbing or even some of the history.

I tried to post sagee but the locals keep taking it down. You can dm me for the topos 

Jcastleberry wrote:

I tried to post sagee but the locals keep taking it down. You can dm me for the topos 

Is the access -- either parking, trial, cliff, or otherwise -- on private property? A lot of areas in the south stay "secret" because of complicated access issues due.

There is a reason its not found anywhere online. 

Sagee has parking for only 3-4 cars.  Being it is no destination crag or anything special, accurately described as a convenience crag that is enjoyable and quiet, never would there be more than that many cars there anyways.  Public land info should be allowed to share publicly.  

Kenneth Cole,

While I agree that in an ideal world sage should be online, in my opinion, access issues preclude doing so currently.

last time  I was at big rock South Carolina there were in excess of 100cars between all the parking lots.

Big rock was a quiet crag before it was on the internet.

climbing is exploding in popularity.  Access sensitive areas will be shut down if loved to death.

Best 

Ezra

Big Rock is a prime example of what happens when more information gets published. At first, the landowners requested it not be on MP due to concerns from the neighbors in the community. Once those concerns were addressed, they felt more comfortable with it getting published on MP. There are more cases than just Big Rock where land owners of public land have specifically requested they be excluded from MP and publishing in general.

Another prime example is the drastic increase in climbers at certain areas like Moore's and Rumbling Bald after another guide book is published. The CCC is scrambling to raise funds currently to increase the size of Moore's parking lot to address the overcrowding before it gets shutdown. There is a scenario where overcrowding the parking area leads to tickets or inhibiting emergency services and then loss of access. RB just had the lot increased 3x and it was full last Saturday. Guidebooks and MP can both do the same thing, increase the visits at an exponential rate rather a smooth linear rate where all access concerns can be addressed at an appropriate rate by the landowners and LCO's.

I totally disagree with Sagee never getting full. I've had to use a lower lot before to access Sagee due to the upper lot being full with climbers. I would visit Sagee more if it was local. The climbing there is good. I can guarantee that pissed off homeowners in the Cashiers/Highlands areas have way more political clout than the climbing community. It wouldn't take much for a local to accidentally side swipe their G-wagon with a climbers car parked illegally on the side of the road. Access is way more fickle than many believe.

Climbing beta is a privilege not a right. The OP simply asked for more information and it was given by another member. Future requests can continue to be that simple at areas with sensitive access. It is how it was done before MP. The climbing community is welcoming even at areas that appear to be "secret". I was never given a topo for Sagee and have made it up and down dozens of climbs there. Don't completely trade adventure for convenience, it is a good skill to have as a climber venturing into the unknown.

I want to add that it is not only guidebooks and published information that bring the crowds---if the crag offers things that the climbing community wants (good climbing, bolts, easy access, routes in a certain grade range, etc) word-of-mouth does the trick. Near where I live we have crag where there has been a purposeful effort to avoid guidebooks and published information but it has many of those 'desirable features', so the parking lots are overflowing every nice weekend--and many weekdays as well. Sometimes (though not always) published information could help spread out the crowds, but the underlying issue is an exponentially growing number of climbers and a limited resource.

This may also be obvious but lately the covid situation has led to a dramatic increase in the number of cars due to folks avoiding long distance carpooling. I don't think this the main factor but it is not going to be resolved until vaccines get rolled out en masse. 

Tom you nailed it.  Especially about beta.  Seven years ago I knew nobody in the community and thought the only climbing was what I found in a book.  Now I have friends all over the south that are more than willing to share info.  You just have to put in time to meet people, get to know them, volunteer, go to local events, be a responsible community member, etc.  The local community is very welcoming, I know because I‘ve experienced it.  Some places around here are worth earning.

Wise words by mr westlake, caldwell, and baird

Caldwell, Rubin, Westlake, Baird and Atlasz - THANK YOU. A breath of fresh air in this era of instant convenience and instant gratification. Keep up the good fight.

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Another prime example is the drastic increase in climbers at certain areas like Moore's and Rumbling Bald after another guide book is published. The CCC is scrambling to raise funds currently to increase the size of Moore's parking lot to address the overcrowding before it gets shutdown. There is a scenario where overcrowding the parking area leads to tickets or inhibiting emergency services and then loss of access. RB just had the lot increased 3x and it was full last Saturday. Guidebooks and MP can both do the same thing, increase the visits at an exponential rate rather a smooth linear rate where all access concerns can be addressed at an appropriate rate by the landowners and LCO's.

Wasn’t one of the Rumbling Bald guidebooks put out by a sitting board member of the CCC

Josh Lipko wrote:

Wasn’t one of the Rumbling Bald guidebooks put out by a sitting board member of the CCC

Yes, it was written and published by two local climbers with decades of first ascents, strong relationships with land managers, very deep and we'll respected connections to the community, who volunteer endlessly building trail, re equipping routes, raising funding for everything climbing through grant writing, constantly seeking to open new areas for public access and who understand that such conservation and stewardship is what builds the relationships that makes all of the above possible. I'm privileged to be a current board member that's inspired by the high level of commitment and energy people like that bring to the CCC. Yes, guidebooks do bring crowds to our local climbing and bouldering areas, some areas are large enough resources to justify guides, others are not for many reasons. It's not particularly relevant to me if those publishing guides are board members, former board members or our executive director, what does matter is their past commitment to the community and their commitment to the community going forward. 

Well stated  and right on AJ  

I spent a lot of the summer and fall climbing in NC while taking care of my mom.  As a non-local NC climber I actually really appreciated the hand drawn paper topos and ask-a-local approach.  I'm not generally a social person when climbing, but it required a little bit more interaction with the locals and a lot more exploring areas I wouldn't have otherwise gone to.  Spent countless hours deep in the woods bouldering on stuff that I never knew the name or grade.  Spent a lot of time reaching out to people to help getting around some of the classic and underdocumented areas as well.  As someone that lives in an overpopulated area of the northeast where I saw a fall season where cars literally were lined up for hours waiting to get into a parking lot to climb at the gunks, it was refreshing to be the only car parked hiking in to a not-as-great crag that I could have all to myself.  Definitely think there's charm to a little bit of adventure and am thankful that NC climbers have kept that alive. 

Little Man wrote:

When you first get to the cliff there are 15-20 routes in the 5.9 and below range mostly following grooves. You'll then get to a section with an obvious two folds in the rock with grooves where there are a handful of 5.9-5.11 lines with two pitches. There's a 5.10, 5.13-, and 5.9 pitch that starts off an obvious ledge up and right of these. Next you'll come by an obvious buttress with a 5.6 up it that has a 5.8 and 5.9 second pitch. Then you'll come across a 2 pitch 5.11- on the right corner of the buttress. Next is a blank project then a 5.13- line. After these you're basically in the middle section with about 10 steeper lines with grades ranging from 5.8+ to 5.12. All of these have much easier 2nd pitches. Three of these routes have serious fall potential with one being 5.11 R, another 5.11+ R, and another 5.10-R/X. Then the angle lessens and you have a 5.9 and two 5.10s on clean slab. After this you have roughly 20 more routes in the 5.9 and below range until the cliff ends. Outside of the steep middle area, most of the cliff is more often wet than dry. Even when most everywhere else in the area is dry, it's often wet. I don't think adding it on to MP is going to do any good but it could possibly lead to issues with locals. 

When I did that 5.11R.... I had no idea what I was on. I just remember looking down after clipping a buttonhead and thinking to myself... "this is absolutely no time to mess up." 

What I saw when I looked down was 50 ft between me and that buttonhead and groundfall potential. 

Regardless, awesome crag but doesn't deserve to be on MP. Just keep it word of mouth. Tom gave very valuable insight about access issues.