Summer Mountaineering Tent

Does anyone use a UL tent or trekking pole tent for summer mountaineering? Something like the zpacks duplex? I have been out on Baker, Shasta, and in the high sierra this summer and felt that a true mountaineering tent was overkill for the conditions. Anyone have experience with using something lighter? 

You don't like the Zpacks Duplex? I think it's a great tent.

No I was looking at getting a duplex, but wondering if it would suffice for these conditions.

I use a pyramid tent, the MLD duomid, for the weight savings. It only weight 21.8oz and pitches with a single trekking pole. I've had it out in some killer winds on Adams and in the desert, and, as long as you pitch it well, it holds up great. Also, if i know the conditions will be good, I'll just bring an ultralight bivy sack.

Jake S wrote:

No I was looking at getting a duplex, but wondering if it would suffice for these conditions.

I am in my second year of using the Duplex in the Sierra. I haven't experienced high winds yet, so I have some doubts how it would fare. But so far, I think it's a great tent for the Sierra, in the summer.

I use it for myself, only, so it's super roomy. I like the double doors and the dual vestibules (in addition to the light weight).

Edit: Not sure you could find anything with a floor and mosquito netting that would be much lighter. I think Zpacks makes a solo tent, if you're looking to save a few more ounces.

I have an MLD duomid which I've used in the alpine in Colorado.  The big issue is making sure it's pitched and guyed out well (really hard/firm surface unable to get stakes in will be a problem).  I left relatively long guylines on mine to maintain flexibility if I need to wrap/tie onto rocks.  I need both my trekking poles and a BD ski strap FWIW.

I used a MLD trailstar on Adams. Not the most comfortable but worked. Next time I'm taking my MLD supermid or just a bivy

If the conditions are such I am not worried about it pissing sideways, I take a bivy sac. Otherwise, one of the my Biblers.

I have a nemo kunai 2 and I find that it's perfect for stuff in BC and the PNW, even in the winter. For something lighter a pyramid tent, if you take the time to pitch properly, should be solid.

For many years, I carried just a bivi sack in the Sierra during the summer time. 

In 2003, my wife and I did East Buttress of Whitney and about 10 minutes after we got down to Iceberg Lake out of a nice blue sky came the worst 10 hours you could imagine. We just had a tent fly. 5 inches of hail, rain by the buckets, strong wind, you name it. We got completely soaked, temps dropped and we had SOME trouble. 

I swore I would always bring a tent.

In 2009 and 2014, it happened again.

 It seems that it never rains in the Sierra in the summer, except, when the Monsoon hits Baja California, goes into Nevada and Arizona, turns west and hits the Sierra. Downpours of incredible proportions occur mostly without any warning..

So if you want to be prepared, bring a light (3lb. or so  max) tent to be sure. The 1-1.5 lb weight difference between a tarp and a tent can be really worth it.

Inclement weather will happen, even in the sunny Sierra and if you go there enough times, you'll run into some serious rain.

to piggy back off Alois' post, I almost always bring a tent, unless only going out for 1 or 2 nights with 0-10% chance of precip.

we use a big agnes copper spur HV UL2  it packs tight and is really light

I know a couple who is so hard pressed to use their OR bivys, but two OR bivys is heavier than a lot of ultralight tents.

This season, in the Cascades, I’ve been through one surprise medium wind storm with light rain. As well as one moderate rain/heavy wind storm on Mt Baker and Mt Shuksan respectively. The first storm had gusts of 30-40 mph. The second had gusts of 50-60. Each lasted at least 30 minutes of sustained winds over 20 mph. 

Out of the 12 different tents that I witnessed during those trips...

On Baker: My REI Passage 2 suffered a bent pole that I didn’t notice until disassembly. Otherwise it handled things well assuming it was tied down with heavy enough rocks. A BD First Light handled well assuming proper tie downs. A lighter weight hubbed pole tent suffered a breakage and fly puncture. A big Agnes ultralight tent got flattened but when correctly tied down showed some improvement. 

And the two Hilleberg tents and one other saw no issues. 

However

On Mt Shuksan with incredibly powerful wind: 

I used a Hilleberg Unna. Initially my tent was doing okay but I was getting somewhat jostled and was beginning to hold down my tent from the inside. 

Then another tent had a catastrophic failure. An MSR Hubba Hubba was ripped out of the ground, fly separated and it’s occupant sent sliding across the snow for several feet. He wrestled the wind and his tent for 15+ minutes gathering his headlamp and clothing to get outside. 

During this time, my tent’s broad side got lifted up and I was thrown sideways.  My tent began to collapse in on me while I was mashed about inside for the next 10 minutes also trying now to get my shells and boots on in order to assist with whatever was happening next. I went between trying to pancake the floor of my tent to the ground during the worst of it and haphazardly searching for my garments when I could. 

Wind speeds lessened enough that I could get out and reset the deadman ground anchors on everyone’s tents. I used several sections of tent poles that had exploded from one tent. 

Another MSR Hubba Hubba had a broken pole and fly rip, but was doing fine. An alps mountaineering bivy tent was alright but way small for a storm.  The REI Halfdome was also fine after having utilized as many tie outs as possible during setup. 

Eventually, the wind completely died and the skies cleared up. We squeezed two occupants in the the Hilleberg Unna and propped up the broken corner with a trekking pole before the rain came back for a second round. We stayed dry if you don’t count the condensation. 

In the morning it turned out that a pole on the Hilleberg had bent in multiple places and snapped, blew out the pole sleeve  and came apart, also slightly ripping the fly. The other pole was bent as well. 

The MSR Hubba Hubba was completely destroyed. 

Important things I’ve concluded: 

1. Properly tieing down your tent can be the only thing keeping you in place, and it can mean the difference between your tent shattering or not. 

2. You’d be really surprised just how heavy of rocks (tie down points) will get blown around in the wind

3. REI tents are surprisingly bomber. 

4. Ultralight tents are for good weather outings and may be one storm away from trashed. 

5. When the weather gets bad, I want more space. Not less. Tiny spaces equal wet clothes not having any room to spread out. 

So I’ve been looking at tents to buy a lot this week. I’m in between getting an MLD Duomid XL with the inner tent or getting a Distance tent and an Eldorado from BD. 

I’ve looked at the zpacks and tarptent brand. I can’t imagine the hold up in those storms and they are extremely expensive. 

I’ve looked at several other brands and been tempted most by the Lightheart Gear SoLong6 as a solo/emergency 2 person 3 season tent. 

Has anyone been through any storms with something super ultralight and been a happy camper afterwards? I’d love to know

A well designed pyramid is probably the best you'll do for ultralight 4 wall protection. It's not optimal in many ways (footprint, snow loading, ease of setup) but it'll handle wind pretty well. 

Most popular Cascades objectives being 1 (occasionally 2) night affairs and modern weather forecasting being decent, don't discount a bivy sack. Zero fuss setup, it will not break in any condition, if you do get caught in bad weather it's only one night. 

A tarp pitched low with its ass to the wind (see above, gusts 60mph) is pretty robust, although obviously with active precip it's not going to keep everything inside from getting dusted. For me it's just a little extra protection to cook and do chores behind, I usually just use the bivy. 

IMO we soon find that one tent is really not enough for all situations and seasons. One thing is a light tent for summer Sierra (for ex.), another is mountaineering tent for glaciated regions. It soon becomes imperative to have at least two tents. I have had the Black Diamond Bibler Eldorado 2 man for many years and a few years ago I got the Big Agnes copper spur HV UL2 for light summer use. The old North Face VE24 that sits in our gear room is not used anymore because the two of us (my wife and I) simply cannot carry that much weight anymore.

 I have used the Bibler for so many years and in so many situations without any regrets, I would fully recommend it for Cascades, Canada and such.  And If I had to have just one tent, I would buy the Bibler again. 

I regularly do overnight, double overnight, and longer trips all season long in the Cascades. Before this I was Marine Corps Infantry where we exclusively used bivvy sacks for four years. Huge fan of bivvy sacks, but I can’t see myself in one all season in the mountains. It’s nice having four walls and a floor to help organize gear, dry out, cook, escape the elements, bugs, people, etc. 

I’m also planning for an entry level trip to Patagonia this December (if it works out) and I’m thinking a pyramid for weight savings on an international trip would be nice  

I’m pretty into the idea of a pyramid, but I can’t really know how difficult they are to work with until I try it myself. I think I’m really going to be getting two tents regardless. Because I want a bomb shelter like the Eldorado for when it’s necessary and something ultralight for when it’s not. 

To each their own; cold snowy mountains are the only place I'd consider using a bivy sack. Liquid precipitation or bugs, no thanks. It's not as much about weight to me as low fuss and being completely bombproof (although admittedly not luxurious). I'm not that hardcore though, I only use them for short trips. Tents have their place for everyone.  If you want a huge bivy with more room for your stuff, check out the Miles Uber Bivy. 

MSR and BD make pyramids if you want to try one before getting on MLD's waiting list. 

MLD makes nice stuff but my advice is order early. Whatever their lead time is, expect it to take twice as long. 

Hyperlite is another option. 

Has anyone been through any storms with something super ultralight and been a happy camper afterwards? I’d love to know

Check out the Six Moon Designs Deschutes Plus (formerly the Wild Oasis). It is essentially a floorless hexamid with a skirt of bug netting.  Bring a sheet of tyvek as a groundcloth and tuck that in under the skirt and you are protected even from sideways rain and spatter off of saturated ground. In 7,000 miles of hiking, including lots above treeline and on snow,  I have never had a problem with this system and in an emergency it will cover two people as long as one person is under 6'0". 

Our shelters are there to keep us comfortable in bad conditions and to keep us alive in the worst conceivable conditions, but we should not expect to be comfortable in the worst conditions. It will be a harrowing night, but you'll manage. In my experience, if you get a solid hour of sun and breeze on day 2, it doesn't really matter how soaked you got the night before because you can dry everything out. But if heavy rain continues all through day 2, then you need to decide whether you want to sleep another night in wet clothes and bag or whether to spend your remaining food fuel and energy on descending ASAP. 

The main lesson is: don't put up your shelter unless you know it's going to rain. 

Interesting. Turns out I’ve been looking exactly for this thread, unfortunate there doesn’t seem to be a good consensus. I coincidentally have a Deschutes Plus but haven’t tried it in alpine stuff, too many solid tie out points required to make it sturdy imo. But eh, maybe I’ll try it with a bivy backup sometime