Top rope soloing -- grigri vs Rescucender

june m wrote:  I actually only use one device when I top rope solo but I have heard from other people that if you put two devices on the same rope they do not work correctly so if you feel the need for two devices you should use two ropes. I usually just tie a backup not when I'm about 15 feet up. The device should I use in the literature that came with it said that you should use it for climbs that you are not probably going to fall on.

Thanks. What kind of backup knot do you tie?

Eric Metzgar wrote:

Thanks. What kind of backup knot do you tie?

An overhand on a bight is the easiest....just needs to jam in the device in case of primary failure. 

Phil Sakievich wrote:

Probably won’t feed well at all though. You’d have to pull through the grigri and the trax both since the grigri will take the weight off the line feeding to the trax. As stated two lines would be best when pairing these devices. Then the grigri just asks as an adjustable backup knot. 

Yeah I’m not saying it’s the best setup, just that it would not fail with a chest harness.

Anybody using the Camp Goblin?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VH1N3Q4/?coliid=I2W9QBK1BQI54O&colid=WVRN0W5PL3A7&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

bernard wolfe wrote:

Anybody using the Camp Goblin?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VH1N3Q4/?coliid=I2W9QBK1BQI54O&colid=WVRN0W5PL3A7&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Yeah Darren posted about this. Just search the forums. Looks pretty slick and you can down climb but I don’t think its great for lowering like a grigri style device. 

I love how TR solo climber's take a ton of photos of their setups. ... it gets lonely having no one to talk to. ... not judging, I do it too:) 

The Rescuecender with the Petzel Torse is a great setup. It feeds very smoothly and allows for better climbing. And it’s easy to slide down the rope. I rarely use a backup device with it. If you try to slowly take the Rescue does like to slide down, but if you let go it locks immediately. The Torse keeps the biner upright and allows for minimal fall. It really encourages climbing till you fall, which you should be doing anyways especially since you are on top rope. You can use the Rescue just on your belay loop without the Torse or some kind of chest attachment and the smooth feeding is even better, but you will take a little bit more of a fall.

JTADA QATIA wrote:

When I started, I was trying Primary = Rescucender and Backup = microtraxion.  But even when I put the Rescucender up higher on my chest with a little harness, I was still finding that when I 'sat back' mid-route to rest/study the route/test the gear... it wasn't always engaging. The Rescucender would sometimes (not always) just slide down the rope. Of course, that's totally nerve-wracking. I've done a ton of searching online for others talking about this, and a few (including BetaClimber's youtube video) show that this is certainly a worry with Rescucenders. So I'm losing confidence in that system, which is a bummer b/c it was expensive and I like that it doesn't have metal teeth.

I encountered the same issue with the Rescucender and stopped using it for that reason. On several occasion the Rescucender would slide down the rope I I was caught by the backup device (Microtrax; same system as you). This was unacceptable to me and I got rid of the Rescucender. I replaced the Rescuecender with a Roll'n'Lock, which I am happy with and has performed very well for the last 3 years I've been using it. The Rollnlock is a better TR solo device on every meaningful metric - it slides smoothly, locks reliably, weighs less and is less bulky, is easier and faster to install/remove on the rope. It has ridges instead of teeth on the cam (which isn't relevant anyway - despite rumor otherwise teeth are fine and don't damage the rope). If you look at the page for Mountanproject user MaxR, he has various posts about a Rollnlock + Mictrotrax setup. It is a good system and I would recommend it.

Anyway, get rid of the Rescuecender and replace it with something better. The Rescucender is heavy, bulky, is a nuisance to take on and off the rope, and locks up unreliably. Why would anyone use this device? It's one advantage (no teeth on cam) has repeatably been demonstrated to not be a relevant consideration for TR solo.

Returning to the thread title - the GriGri is an inferior device for TR solo also, but for a whole different set of reasons (poor feed). So for GriGri vs Rescucender: the answer is neither. 

Max Schon wrote:

The Rescuecender with the Petzel Torse is a great setup. It feeds very smoothly and allows for better climbing. And it’s easy to slide down the rope. I rarely use a backup device with it. If you try to slowly take the Rescue does like to slide down, but if you let go it locks immediately. The Torse keeps the biner upright and allows for minimal fall. It really encourages climbing till you fall, which you should be doing anyways especially since you are on top rope. You can use the Rescue just on your belay loop without the Torse or some kind of chest attachment and the smooth feeding is even better, but you will take a little bit more of a fall.

Yikes. So in one paragraph you acknowledge the (concerningly common) failure mode for that device, and then note rarely using a backup?

I don't know how you guys are rigging, but if you're using a bungee cord to keep the rescuecender tightly upright by clipping directly to the lever or biner/quicklink that is attached to the lever, you might be overriding the spring action of the lever to engage (I hope that made sense). I noticed that with my microcender anyway. 

Brandon R wrote:

I don't know how you guys are rigging, but if you're using a bungee cord to keep the rescuecender tightly upright by clipping directly to the lever or biner/quicklink that is attached to the lever, you might be overriding the spring action of the lever to engage (I hope that made sense). I noticed that with my microcender anyway. 

I always used mine without any chest harness or bungee. Just attached directly to the belay loop.  

When I did run into issues it was generally on some sort of overhang, so maybe that changed the orientation of the device in a way that caused it to not work. Still, a device that can be caused to not catch by minor shifts in loading direction...not something i want to mess with.

JCM wrote:

I always used mine without any chest harness or bungee. Just attached directly to the belay loop.  

When I did run into issues it was generally on some sort of overhang, so maybe that changed the orientation of the device in a way that caused it to not work. Still, a device that can be caused to not catch by minor shifts in loading direction...not something i want to mess with.

Totally understandable. I still use my microcender on occasion (with another device), but I'll be careful to avoid those situations. 

Max R wrote:

Hey thats me! Some of you are using WAY over complicated systems with devices that suck. If you want ONE device to rule them all- trango vergo.

People need to stop using grigris for TR Solo

tell me why (not being sarcastic) for both vergo and no grigri.

I’m currently on the two-fixed-lines-with-ascender-as-primary-and-grigri-as-backup kick. It’s nice having the grigri to use to rappel when you’re done; backup overhand about 15 feet off the ground, then another one or two as I work up so that worst case scenario, I’m not falling 50 feet onto the knot should the ascender fail.

I’m using a BD index at the moment which is way too clunky and annoying as the ascender.

I’m about to pull the trigger on a smaller PCD though so I’m looking forward to that. 

Arthur W wrote:

tell me why (not being sarcastic) for both vergo and no grigri.

The vergo self feeds with a light amount of weight on the bottom of the rope. On the contrary, no amount of rope weight will make the grigri self feed. And TR soloing isn’t fun if you constantly have to babysit your device. 

JCM wrote:

Yikes. So in one paragraph you acknowledge the (concerningly common) failure mode for that device, and then note rarely using a backup?

If by “failure mode” you mean the Rescuecender slides down the rope if you try to very slowly weight it, that’s not a failure; it’s actually a feature that  makes it a great device because it allows for smoother rope feed than a Microtraction. If you quickly weight the Rescue, like when you fall off because you’re trying hard and you’re on top rope, it locks up instantly. At least it has for me hundreds of times. With a little practice you can also get it to engage when you want to slowly weight it, like when you want to work some crux moves. I haven’t read about the Rescuecender failing to engage during a fall and dropping the climber. Obviously climbing with only one device is not as safe as two devices. I was only providing anecdotal experience about using the Rescuecender. You should climb with whatever setup makes you feel safe.

Case report - 2012, Queensland, Australia

Fixed line/Top rope self belay non-redundant device failure- microscender mode unknown 10-15m groundfall. Multiple lower limb fractures, vertebral #s, nerve damage to leg.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/queenslandclimbing/top-rope-solo-danger-accident-is-a-warning-to-othe-t6394.html 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/queenslandclimbing/kp-self-belay-accident-groundfall-t6260-s20.html 

Aside: has there ever been a reported failure of a petzl-discussed setup (IE abrasion/cutting of single line with redundant devices ?).

Lots of people use a single device with no problems, just as many people never wear a helmet climbing and never get hit by a rock in the noggin, or drive intoxicated and never drive into a tree. Each to their own.

Brandon R wrote:

I don't know how you guys are rigging, but if you're using a bungee cord to keep the rescuecender tightly upright by clipping directly to the lever or biner/quicklink that is attached to the lever, you might be overriding the spring action of the lever to engage (I hope that made sense). I noticed that with my microcender anyway. 

I hitch mine into the same hole as the carabiner goes into on the Microtrax...

Buck Rio wrote:

I think if you did a poll of all people that TR solo a lot, most would use a Microtrax or facsimile as the main device, and not a grigri. I fooled around with an ascender and grigri, ascender and micro and a Mini/Micro setup.  The Microtraxion feed the smoothest, and is the least likely to have the cam defeated in a fall IMO. 

Tope Rope Survey has been in progress for a couple days and already has over a hundred responses

Click here to take the survey: Tope Rope Solo Survey

Click here to see the results: Survey Results

SICgrips wrote:

Tope Rope Survey has been in progress for a couple days and already has over a hundred responses

Click here to take the survey: Tope Rope Solo Survey

Click here to see the results: Survey Results

I can't access the survey from work...did you ask the average number of pitched they TR solo a month? That is relevant info.