Top rope soloing -- grigri vs Rescucender

Hi folks. I've only recently gotten into TRS'ing. I'm still taking it very slowly, staying low to the ground, getting comfortable with the systems, etc.  But thus far it's been enjoyable and allows me to get out on a local crag before I have to start work for the day. Which is keeping me sane.

When I started, I was trying Primary = Rescucender and Backup = microtraxion.  But even when I put the Rescucender up higher on my chest with a little harness, I was still finding that when I 'sat back' mid-route to rest/study the route/test the gear... it wasn't always engaging. The Rescucender would sometimes (not always) just slide down the rope. Of course, that's totally nerve-wracking. I've done a ton of searching online for others talking about this, and a few (including BetaClimber's youtube video) show that this is certainly a worry with Rescucenders. So I'm losing confidence in that system, which is a bummer b/c it was expensive and I like that it doesn't have metal teeth.

So today I tried using my Grigri as my primary on one rope with my microtrax on the 2nd rope as backup. I know the problems with grigris for TRS, particularly that you have to feed the rope through with one hand, which isn't fun. But today I did it and it wasn't too terrible.

I'm wondering if anyone else has flip-flopped between these two pieces of gear for TRS and has any thoughts or suggestions to share?  
Thanks everyone.

 I actually only use one device when I top rope solo but I have heard from other people that if you put two devices on the same rope they do not work correctly so if you feel the need for two devices you should use two ropes. I usually just tie a backup not when I'm about 15 feet up. The device should I use in the literature that came with it said that you should use it for climbs that you are not probably going to fall on.

I alternate between microscender and grigri.  Like June said, I tie a knot after I get up a bit with either one. If I'm on a climb that I don't think I will fall on,  I use the micro.  If i think I'm gonna do a bunch of falling, especially on overhanging routes, I use the grigri. That way i can just lower back down to a stance , instead of going through the process of changing devices to get back on the wall. But the gri gri does suck in that it doesn't feed well... 

If you're using the GriGri/Microtrax combo your trax should be rigged as the primary.  You don't have to worry about slack build up if you don't pull rope for a couple of moves, then.

For what it's worth I usually use two devices on one rope and it's not an issue at all.  They both engage and they feed better than they do on separate lines.  If I'm using a trax/GriGri combo though, I do throw those on separate lines.

R 3 wrote: If you're using the GriGri/Microtrax combo your trax should be rigged as the primary.  You don't have to worry about slack build up if you don't pull rope for a couple of moves, then.

For what it's worth I usually use two devices on one rope and it's not an issue at all.  They both engage and they feed better than they do on separate lines.  If I'm using a trax/GriGri combo though, I do throw those on separate lines.

Thanks for that. Do you raise the trax with a chest harness?

R 3 wrote: If you're using the GriGri/Microtrax combo your trax should be rigged as the primary.  You don't have to worry about slack build up if you don't pull rope for a couple of moves, then.

For what it's worth I usually use two devices on one rope and it's not an issue at all.  They both engage and they feed better than they do on separate lines.  If I'm using a trax/GriGri combo though, I do throw those on separate lines.

If you are using a grigri/microtrax on a single line the GriGri MUST be the primary. If the microtrax is the primary and it fails, it will slide down the rope onto the cam of the GriGri and prevent the GriGi from engaging.

Eric Metzgar wrote:

Thanks for that. Do you raise the trax with a chest harness?

Use a piece of shock cord around your neck for the top device (if using two).  It will keep it oriented correctly, and won't hang you if it catches on something in a fall. 

This is pretty close to my set up, but the top Microtrax in my setup is girth hitched to my harness with a 30 cm sling so it sits higher than the one on my belay loop. In the below, the two devices could ride against each other and cause a problem. Unlikely but possible.  

Chris Gardner wrote: If you are using a grigri/microtrax on a single line the GriGri MUST be the primary. If the microtrax is the primary and it fails, it will slide down the rope onto the cam of the GriGri and prevent the GriGi from engaging.

You're right.  Like I said, when I'm using a gri and a trax they're on separate lines.

Eric, I use Buck's setup above (primary extended on a short sling and a neck loop) for suspending my top ascender.

Woops. Didn't read where it said the OP was using two lines.

R 3 wrote:

You're right.  Like I said, when I'm using a gri and a trax they're on separate lines.

Eric, I use Buck's setup above (primary extended on a short sling and a neck loop) for suspending my top ascender.

Thanks, Chris.

My specific question is this -- if I've got the trax on its own rope (grigri on other)... then will it help the trax to be raised with a neck strap? Does that 1) decrease slack and/or 2) help the teeth not tear up the rope as much?  and  3) engage before the grigri?

Eric Metzgar wrote:

Thanks, Chris.

My specific question is this -- if I've got the trax on its own rope (grigri on other)... then will it help the trax to be raised with a neck strap? Does that 1) decrease slack and/or 2) help the teeth not tear up the rope as much?  and  3) engage before the grigri?

The neck loop is just so the device remains in ideal orientation, and you won't have to pull up slack through the trax as often and it will engage immediately on a fall. This is the same setup Tommy Caldwell uses to work routes. 

And by the way, the teeth on a Microtrax DO NOT tear up the rope. That is a myth, I have been using the same semi-static rope for 6 years and it looks practically new and I use TWO Microtrax. The non-toothed versions are much more likely to strip off your sheath than a Micro.

Buck Rio wrote:

The neck loop is just so the device remains in ideal orientation, and you won't have to pull up slack through the trax as often and it will engage immediately on a fall. This is the same setup Tommy Caldwell uses to work routes. 

And by the way, the teeth on a Microtrax DO NOT tear up the rope. That is a myth, I have been using the same semi-static rope for 6 years and it looks practically new and I use TWO Microtrax. The non-toothed versions are much more likely to strip off your sheath than a Micro.

Cool. Thanks!

Chris Gardner wrote: If you are using a grigri/microtrax on a single line the GriGri MUST be the primary. If the microtrax is the primary and it fails, it will slide down the rope onto the cam of the GriGri and prevent the GriGi from engaging.

Provided your microtrax isn't on a chest harness. If it is on a chest harness I don't see how it will cause problems with a grigri if it fails?

june m wrote:   ...I usually just tie a backup not when I'm about 15 feet up...

You do or you don't?

Not at 15, but rather knot at 20?

I use a camp lift and an ascender (petzl croll I think?) and it works perfectly. I can't imagine any reason to mess around with a gri gri for this, it just doesn't feed nearly as well. I also don't use a chest harness. The way I set things up from the belay loop, both devices tend to engage simultaneously and if either failed to engage it wouldn't prevent the other from engaging. 

Also use CAMP Lift as main and microtrax backup on single line. I use the other line to transition to rap if I need to get lower. Am I to understand that using the Lift as main is a bad idea, that it could realistically damage a rope from a toprope fall? Thanks

T Lego wrote:

Also use CAMP Lift as main and microtrax backup on single line. I use the other line to transition to rap if I need to get lower. Am I to understand that using the Lift as main is a bad idea, that it could realistically damage a rope from a toprope fall? Thanks

My lift failed in this exact setup when it turned 30 degrees off axis, because the rope snagged the camming device open. But I was on overhanging terrain and not something most people would top rope solo.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

Provided your microtrax isn't on a chest harness. If it is on a chest harness I don't see how it will cause problems with a grigri if it fails?

Probably won’t feed well at all though. You’d have to pull through the grigri and the trax both since the grigri will take the weight off the line feeding to the trax. As stated two lines would be best when pairing these devices. Then the grigri just asks as an adjustable backup knot. 

Buck Rio wrote:

Use a piece of shock cord around your neck for the top device (if using two).  It will keep it oriented correctly, and won't hang you if it catches on something in a fall. 

This is pretty close to my set up, but the top Microtrax in my setup is girth hitched to my harness with a 30 cm sling so it sits higher than the one on my belay loop. In the below, the two devices could ride against each other and cause a problem. Unlikely but possible.

Hey thats me! Some of you are using WAY over complicated systems with devices that suck. If you want ONE device to rule them all- trango vergo.

People need to stop using grigris for TR Solo

Max R wrote:

Hey thats me! Some of you are using WAY over complicated systems with devices that suck. If you want ONE device to rule them all- trango vergo.

People need to stop using grigris for TR Solo

Yeah, I harvested the pic because is resembles my setup very closely. The Microtrax pic, not the Vergo. 

I think if you did a poll of all people that TR solo a lot, most would use a Microtrax or facsimile as the main device, and not a grigri. I fooled around with an ascender and grigri, ascender and micro and a Mini/Micro setup.  The Microtraxion feed the smoothest, and is the least likely to have the cam defeated in a fall IMO.