Alright, spill the tea on CBD...

Does it work?  Does it help?  I keep seeing climbers pick up these endorsements and even TC says he’s using it so I figured it might be worth looking into, but the research is still pretty inconclusive.  I’m getting up there (37) and definitely have my fair share of climbing related aches and pains, so the promise of faster/better recovery is definitely tempting.  Has anyone tried it and noticed an appreciable difference?

First, I'm not a doctor ... well, maybe a WebMD doctor buuuuuut I've used both topical (balm/lotion) and oral.  Topical seem to work pretty well for me but nothing more than something like arnica.  I've actually combined arnica, tincture CBD oil and lotion which was a great combot!  I use it mainly for inflammation in my hands/joints purposes.  Oral has been hit or miss for me.  The only noticeable difference is when I use a high dosage of tincture which isn't the cheapest.  I've heard to feel more of an effect is to use a bit of THC but "that" feeling might be associated with the body's reaction to THC ha.  Idk - seems too early to tell.

FrankPS wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

That was my initial thought as well but I’m happy to at least hear it out.

Dana Bartlett wrote: I apologize, this is not what you are looking for, but it is open access online and it has some good references about CBD and pain, e.g., effectiveness, aadvers effects, safety.
Van Dolah et al. (2019). Clinician's Guide to Cannabidiol and Hemp Oils. Mayo Clin Proc. 2019, Sep;94(9):1840-1851.

No, this is great!  Thanks.

It’s not a long term fix but it feels nice short term. I have used it in sore knees, elbows, fingers, etc.  a cream (Mary Janes Salve bought in CO)

I guess what I’m saying is that CBD is not the fountain of youth.  But I guess it has some uses, even if it is just a placebo effect.  Who knows.  Certainly not me.

best of luck.  Have fun and be safe.

EDIT: if it wasn’t clear, there are non-thc and thc based CBD products.  The one I describe is the thc.

Personal experience: picked up some JTree products with CBD when my husband bid on a fundraiser silent auction “lot” of JTree items at Rocktoberfest last fall. This included JTree climbing salve with CBD, and honey with CBD

Verdict: 1) the climbing salve with CBD is a bit more “runny” than JTree’s normal climbing salve. And smells different. Didn’t notice any other effect of using it.

2) Honey with CBD tastes bitter. And seems to have no effect on anything, whatsoever

As the packaging says, “CBD MAY have a myriad of benefits.” My emphasis on MAY.

I have tried various forms of cbd and have noticed absolutely nothing. YMMV.

I have tried the tincture, edible, and vape carts for CBD and unless they are a 2:1 ratio the benefits I receive from taking it is on par with taking Ibuprofen. So maybe just save the money you would spend on the CBD and go to a massage therapist.

I'm a pharmacist, and from everything I've read I agree with what you said--the data is pretty inconclusive.  I dont think it would hurt to try, but the data isn't there to support whatever anyone says it works for

I think it worth trying it at least once. There will be no harm, but you will find out for yourself if it works or not. I usually apply it after a workout or any other physical activity to reduce muscle pain, and it works for me. I also heard that it has other benefits apart from pain relief. But you need to google them because everyone days different things about it. Recently I’ve even found on knockoutcbd.com cartridges with different flavors for my vape. It says that it has the same effects as CBD oil, but when I’m vaping, I just feel relaxed.

I tried it, it didn't do anything for me.  I know a lot of smart people I like who feel like it does for them... who am I to argue with their lived experiences of using their bodies.

It's not like it's either super expensive by a lot of folks standards or is likely to have a negative outcome.

I have a pretty long scoreboard of things I have tried, some have been unexpectedly successful for.me (fasting, meditation, not getting drunk every night) and some have not been (foam rolling, duolingo, deer whistlers, low-plate-voltage tube electronics).

CBD fell far enough into that latter category that I am not inclined to keep trying it myself, but not so far that I would judge folks for using it in the way I'd judge someone for using a turn-of-the-century cassette 4-track to create analog warmth in their recordings.

Many people are reporting benefits, but doctors and scientists haven't looked at it enough to say anything conclusively, other than it helps with certain kinds of epilepsy.  (There is currently an FDA-approved CBD-based drug that significantly reduces seizures).  In addition to the lack of sufficient research, it won't be FDA-regulated until 2022.  It's currently listed as a "health supplement", meaning companies can legally lie about their products.  Some products have very different levels of CBD (more or less) than what is claimed.  Some even have unlisted THC in them.

I live in Colorado, so I get flower that is grown to have high CBD and low THC.  THC helps increase the effect of CBD due to their agonist-antagonist relationship.  Also, because I'm getting weed at the weed store, it has to meet certain guidelines and must advertise proper levels of each chemical +/-20%, so I at least know what I'm getting.  I use it every once in a while.  (I vaporize it so I'm not smoking anything.)  I've found it reduces muscle soreness.  Some are touting it as a magical recovery aid, which it might be, but I'm not sure if it's actually making me less sore through some recovery mechanism, or it just makes it so I can't feel how sore I really am.  It definitely reduces my anxiety, which is another benefit that others have reported.  However, I don't use it to treat anxiety as I have personal qualms about using a drug to do something I can do without a drug.  But I do find a certain reduction in my mental chatter after using it.

I've never messed with topicals, but I have a friend who fixed his elbow tendonitis with CBD.  He is a seriously good personal trainer so he understands the body, and tried a bunch of other things.  YMMV.

Seriously Moderate Climber wrote:

Many people are reporting benefits, but doctors and scientists haven't looked at it enough to say anything conclusively, other than it helps with certain kinds of epilepsy.  (There is currently an FDA-approved CBD-based drug that significantly reduces seizures).  In addition to the lack of sufficient research, it won't be FDA-regulated until 2022.  It's currently listed as a "health supplement", meaning companies can legally lie about their products.  Some products have very different levels of CBD (more or less) than what is claimed.  Some even have unlisted THC in them.

I live in Colorado, so I get flower that is grown to have high CBD and low THC.  THC helps increase the effect of CBD due to their agonist-antagonist relationship.  Also, because I'm getting weed at the weed store, it has to meet certain guidelines and must advertise proper levels of each chemical +/-20%, so I at least know what I'm getting.  I use it every once in a while.  (I vaporize it so I'm not smoking anything.)  I've found it reduces muscle soreness.  Some are touting it as a magical recovery aid, which it might be, but I'm not sure if it's actually making me less sore through some recovery mechanism, or it just makes it so I can't feel how sore I really am.  It definitely reduces my anxiety, which is another benefit that others have reported.  However, I don't use it to treat anxiety as I have personal qualms about using a drug to do something I can do without a drug.  But I do find a certain reduction in my mental chatter after using it.

I've never messed with topicals, but I have a friend who fixed his elbow tendonitis with CBD.  He is a seriously good personal trainer so he understands the body, and tried a bunch of other things.  YMMV.

.....here we go with the science again.

I inflamed both Achilles pretty badly not properly training and warming up for some lengthy approaches last year. In addition to working some Achilles routines into my training regiment I also bought 1500mg topical cbd from cbdmd.com. I apply it at night with a wavetoolstherapy.com. I’ve definitely noticed less stiffness in the morning and inflammation overall. Trying to put off buying my first pair of Mythos for as long as possible...

CBD without THC , seems ineffective for pain and inflammation for me. ( bi-lateral amputee), together they are like magic for me, sleeping through the night after a day of climbing without the combination is highly unlikely. It is hell having your feet  throbbing with jolts of electricity jumping from the ends.The combined effects mute the effects and keep them in the “background”.

It is hard to pin down exactly what the ultimate cause is, but in the last few months I have made a very concerted effort to reduce any inflammation in my knuckles. The changes I have made is trying to better balance my omega fats, taking a daily dose of CBD, and taking a daily calcium/magnesium/zinc (thinking joint inflammation might have something to do with a reduction in available calcium and magnesium and thus an inability for the body to repair damage).  For CBD I use a product which provides about 12.5 mg of 'full spectrum' CBD per dose, and I take one dose a day.  

I can now get my knuckles into finger locks which I have not been able to use for years, so something I am doing appears to be working. Is it the cal/mag/zinc supplement? The CBD? Balancing the Omega fats? A combination? None of the above? It is hard to say. One thing I can say though is I have been taking the cal/mag/zinc for nearly a year and I have been balancing my omega fats to some degree for a decade or more (though not as well as I am now), but I have only been taking the CBD for the last few months, and it is in the last few months that I have seen the change in my knuckles.  

My thinking is that CBD has to do with regulating the immune system (here and here), and some of the inflammation we experience is due to some degree of an overactive immune system in that the inflammation is caused by the immune system attacking otherwise healthy cells, and that CBD helps address this specific type of inflammation. To re-iterate what others have said, I don't find the results to be earth shattering in their dramatic result. Instead I would say it is like taking ibuprofen to help heal something: it helps but is not anything close to a cure.

I use topical cbd on my shoulder after a day of wall climbing if I'm going to continue climbing on that wall the next day. Normally I wake up with massive pain in my shoulder that takes about 30 minutes to slowly pass. If I use the topical the night before (ibuprofen does nothing for this for me), this has effectively stopped happening in the morning. No clue if it's placebo effect or actually working. 

Okay it's a necropost, but still a relevant topic. I took low dose oral cbd daily for several months. I climbed the best in my life and needed much less recovery time, though I believe all that climbing (4-5 days per week instead of my usual 3) put me at risk of injury. I stopped taking it because it made me fuzzy in the head, which is not okay with my job. I recently tried topical and found I can't do that either without getting fuzzy. I was using the same brand though. Might try a different brand at some point because I really did see performance & recovery benefits. 

Skip the CBD and go straight to vodka. 

I will tell you the same thing I say to anyone else that asks about wonder drugs.  If it works for you, it works for you.  Even if the only reason it works is the placebo effect, it still works.

As for the science of CBD, there isn't enough research to point conclusively that it does any of the things that proponents claim.  Everything is just anecdotal evidence.  There is research that CBD has certain medicinal properties, but where the rubber meets the road is dosing and delivery.  Water is essential to life, but if you drink too much or try to breathe it, you will die.  Most of the research I have seen on CBD is that for it to have the medicinal properties that are claimed, you need to take in way more than what most people who claim the benefits are taking.