The Girth Hitch Master Point

I wrote a little article on my site about the Girth Hitch Master Point. Give it a look if you're keen to learn how to avoid having to untie dynema slings with cold hands...

https://www.enthusiastalpine.com/library-blog/gugdicg1jp8zo0n8k4hikrvq1wrz30

These is a possibly dumb question and has likely been covered elsewhere... but:

is there any dis////advantage to a clove hitch over that girth hitch?

Another possibly dumb question that I haven't fully thought out:

- if I wanted a longer extension, would there be problems cloving the strands to the individual pieces and then leaving the "middle" strand (between the pieces) out of the hitch on the master point?

John Reeve wrote: These is a possibly dumb question and has likely been covered elsewhere... but:

is there any dis////advantage to a clove hitch over that girth hitch?

Anyone foregoing a real masterpoint knot should watch the How Not To Highline guy's testing of the girth and clove masterpoint.  

Gunkiemike wrote:

Anyone foregoing a real masterpoint knot should watch the How Not To Highline guy's testing of the girth and clove masterpoint.  

This one?

Gunkiemike wrote:

Anyone foregoing a real masterpoint knot should watch the How Not To Highline guy's testing of the girth and clove masterpoint.  

Thanks for the words Mike.

That's a great video forsure. Shows you where the limitations of this method are pretty well. However, it's rare (not impossible) for a piece to blow from a strong force (likely a factor two) and then be reloaded with another force of equivalent magnitude in a continuous manner.

One thing I wish they would have tested is a more realistic force of a sudden 7kn+ pull rather than a continuous slow building of force over the course of ten seconds.

If you've got a poor piece in your anchor set up, its simple to switch back to a knot. Just like everything in climbing, there is a time and place for everything and nothing.

John Reeve wrote: These is a possibly dumb question and has likely been covered elsewhere... but:

is there any dis////advantage to a clove hitch over that girth hitch?

John,

Here's a great little article on the clove. https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/try-a-clove-hitch-at-the-master-point

As for your other question, I don't think I'm following... Are you asking whether you can clove individual pieces and leave the middle strands similar to how a quad anchor operates?

Gunkiemike wrote:

Anyone foregoing a real masterpoint knot should watch the How Not To Highline guy's testing of the girth and clove masterpoint.  

It's a good video, but doesn't really replicate a climbing fall. IIRC they get a girth masterpoint to fail with ~6kN sustained over like 5 seconds or so? Crucially, the hitch slips slowly and required high force sustained over a multi second duration. In a fall the forces would peak on the order of 100ms. Would be cool to see some drop tests on these hitches. 

Gunkiemike wrote:

Anyone foregoing a real masterpoint knot should watch the How Not To Highline guy's testing of the girth and clove masterpoint.  

That video shows that a long, slow pull (~6kn for several continuous seconds) can defeat the anchor if the sling is cut.  That's not a situation you can replicate in recreational climbing.

Here's another topic I started when I began using girth hitch anchors for ice climbing:
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118091479/girth-hitch-ice-climbing-anchors

Cool article. I'm glad to see people are enjoying the benefits of this anchor. Fast. Uses very little material. Easy to untie, etc.

I've been using the girth hitch masterpoint most of the time the last few years.

A couple points IMO:

• I give the strands between the pieces a twist (like you would do for a sliding X) then if a leg fails it can't slip through girth hitch. It's extremely unlikely it would slip enough to matter anyway, but for piece of mind it's nice to know it won't go through.
• I use 12mm dyneema slings, instead of 8mm. They seem way less likely to slip.

And I wouldn't say: "The second is an equalized anchor with an overhand or figure eight as the master point." I would say it's a "load sharing" anchor. The definition of equalized means the same and testing shows a cordellete or sling with a knot puts most (or all)of the force on one leg.

Glowering wrote: I've been using the girth hitch masterpoint most of the time the last few years.

A couple points IMO:

• I give the strands between the pieces a twist (like you would do for a sliding X) then if a leg fails it can't slip through girth hitch. It's extremely unlikely it would slip enough to matter anyway, but for piece of mind it's nice to know it won't go through.
• I use 12mm dyneema slings, instead of 8mm. They seem way less likely to slip.

And I wouldn't say: "The second is an equalized anchor with an overhand or figure eight as the master point." I would say it's a "load sharing" anchor. The definition of equalized means the same and testing shows a cordellete or sling with a knot puts most (or all)of the force on one leg.

Yes to all of that. And good point regarding the load sharing aspect. I'll give that a quick edit.

Will M wrote:

As for your other question, I don't think I'm following... Are you asking whether you can clove individual pieces and leave the middle strands similar to how a quad anchor operates?

Well, here's the setup that I was thinking about:

TBH, if I have two bolts I usually just tie some cord into a quad (or use the rope or, I dunno, whatever I have left on the rack that seems convenient), so this is mostly an academic question.

A direct comparison of the girth vs clove hitch would be useful.  Most of the advantages listed in both articles seem to apply to both hitches, so it's not clear how one would choose one vs the other.

It would be interesting to test this with, say, 6-7mm perlon. I suspect you'd get much better redundancy with one leg cut.

I agree that the slow pull may not reflect what happens for a very brief peak load.  Moreover, if a piece blows (far far more likely than something cutting a strand) there's a bunch of metal that will stop the unmoored end from pulling through the knot.  So all in all I think the girth hitch is going to be fine for almost everything.

The advantage over a tied masterpoint is that the girth hitch (and the clove hitch) won't weld if loaded.  (But tied masterpoints can be made less weldable by inserting an extra carabiner through the knot.)  The advantage of the girth hitch over a clove hitch is it is easier to get the girth hitch in the right position the first try.  A clove hitch tied in a sling often needs to be adjusted to be in the right location.  

The ease of installation of the girth hitch relative to the other knots increases as the number of strands increases, e.g.  if the anchor is a three-piece anchor.  

You neither need nor use the gate to throw a girth hitch on a carabiner.  This opens the door to using something for a master point that doesn't have a gate, like an large rap ring (the kind arborists use for retrievable anchor slings) or a small light rigging plate.

rgold wrote: You neither need nor use the gate to throw a girth hitch on a carabiner.  This opens the door to using something for a master point that doesn't have a gate, like an large rap ring ...

I'd been thinking of getting a large rap ring to use for this exact purpose. Does anyone have any experience using this method? Any pros/cons that might not be obvious to using it instead of a large carabiner? 

Chris Stocking wrote:

I'd been thinking of getting a large rap ring to use for this exact purpose. Does anyone have any experience using this method? Any pros/cons that might not be obvious to using it instead of a large carabiner? 

You'd be bringing up extra gear that really serves only 1 purpose. An extra biner might be more useful.

Thanks for the post will. Lots of helpful info here. My question/concern is on the shelf. Is there a shelf? I like to belay off the shelf to get more “throw“ ie to make the belay easier and more comfortable. Could you clip the two legs above for a shelf?

John Reeve wrote:

Well, here's the setup that I was thinking about:

TBH, if I have two bolts I usually just tie some cord into a quad (or use the rope or, I dunno, whatever I have left on the rack that seems convenient), so this is mostly an academic question.

If the top of the triangle is slack when the thing is loaded, then the two slings will pull on the gear at the minimum angle. That keeps loads to a minimum. But as the top piece becomes taut, the setup can assume the dimensions/angles of the American Triangle, with the higher loads that those angles induce. If fact you can get it to be worse than the AT if you really crank the pieces together across the top.

Dylan Carey wrote: Thanks for the post will. Lots of helpful info here. My question/concern is on the shelf. Is there a shelf? I like to belay off the shelf to get more “throw“ ie to make the belay easier and more comfortable. Could you clip the two legs above for a shelf?

The legs on this type of setup don't seem long enough, unlike on be a BFK, to really give you any extra throw...

I'm going to try this girth hitch method. I really like the simplicity and benefits. Thanks op!

Chris Stocking wrote:

I'd been thinking of getting a large rap ring to use for this exact purpose. Does anyone have any experience using this method? Any pros/cons that might not be obvious to using it instead of a large carabiner? 

A ring would be harder to rack. You'd have to clip it to your gear loop with a biner. I see that as more likely to result in dropping it vs. just a biner. I use a large pear shaped biner (Rocklock) it's pretty flat on the bottom (big end) it fits 4 biners clipped to it easily. A round rap ring may pin the middle biners in more when the outside ones are weighted. I haven't tried a big rap ring though, just conjecture.