Top Rope Solo set up

Looking to get a TRS setup after finally trying my buddies recently. Planning on a micro traction for backup/secondary piece. He used a CAMP Lift for primary. It seems like the Lift might be discontinued(?). The Solo 2 seems like a comparable option, but it does have teeth, although they seem less aggressive than on the micro trax. Is the solo a good option and won't eat my rope, or should I hold out for a Lift? Or look for something else all together??

Toothed devices do not chew up your rope.

Sam Skovgaard wrote: Toothed devices do not chew up your rope.

Hmm. I have had multiple people tell me you want to avoid weighting the micro trax for that reason, and one friend even declined using my rope as a fixed line for taking photos (with a micro) when he realized it was a brand new dry treated rope, because he was going to feel so bad about it. Is this all incorrect?

I've weighted my microtrax 40+ times in the last few weeks. I use my old 10.2mm, doesn't really look any different than before.

Pat Marrinan wrote:

Hmm. I have had multiple people tell me you want to avoid weighting the micro trax for that reason, and one friend even declined using my rope as a fixed line for taking photos (with a micro) when he realized it was a brand new dry treated rope, because he was going to feel so bad about it. Is this all incorrect?

Those multiple people are wrong.  I understand the impulse, you look at those rows of little crocodile teeth and images flash through your mind of shredded sheath fuzz, but it's just not the case.

Example which proves my point:
I hook up my hauling systems for big wall connecting the haul bag to the haul line with a micro trax (backup knot of course) and a high efficiency 2:1 hauling setup on top.  I'll have the haul bag get stuck on a little roof or pinching chimney and I'll crank that haul line so tight with the 2:1 trying to get the bag to break loose that the haul line is taut like a guitar string (really high amounts of force on those teeth, way more than you will ever put on your system while toprope solong)  When you look at the piece of rope afterwards, you can't even tell where the micro trax was, there are no markings whatsoever.

What does chew up your rope when toprope soloing is the rope rubbing and sliding over edges.  There are ways to mitigate this, but not eliminate it completely.

Check out the history of the ropeman2 redesign.

If memory serves, WC switched from pinchy grooves to pointed teeth because the pinchy grooves were pretty effective at sheathing ropes under abrupt substantial loading.

I own/use a Lift for (relatively low volume TRS’ing), but have been eager to replace it. It does the job, but you definitely need to weight the rope below the device to prevent it just hauling the rope up slack as you go.  

also recommend you search the forums, as this topic has definitely been covered before (fairly exhaustively and fairly recently, too). Darren Mabe recommends the Camp Goblin, and if anyone would have a decent perspective and solid advice, it’s probably him. The Goblin looks like a fantastic device, imo.

I only find the microtrax can fuzz ropes if you attempt to shift it/remove it while partially weighted. I.e. "sagging" into it on a fall does nothing. Faffing with it near a redirect or tryng to remove it while activated will pull at the sheath. Also rope dependent: Infinity it is unnoticeable, my beater rope has a looser weave and gets catchy on the teeth

Having recommended other options, if you’re still gung-ho on the CAMP Lift, I’d be willing to send you mine (good condition, used maybe 20 times over 3 years) for $35.

Just here to also say the micro won't chew up your rope. There's a reason most (or at least many) people use it for soloing. 

I've been using the same 10.2 rope exclusively for TR solo with a microtrax as both primary + backup for at least 6 years now.  Lots of falls, lots of hanging, and the rope still looks brand new.  

Teeth + sheath damage is a myth.

My camp lift actually failed on me yesterday fortunately I was close to the ground and backed it up with a gri gri. I was working a route I put up (slightly overhanging 5.12a diehederal) and the device was off axis at about 30 degrees the rope snagged the cam open as it was off axis and then I fell. The device did slow the fall but I would have for sure decked if it had not been backed up on a gri gri. Also I was at the end of a normal climbing rope so 150 feet+ of rope in the system didn't help.

I use the Camp Lift and Elderid Spok as backup below the Lift and am very happy with it. My partner swears by the Camp Goblin which I've used and has a bit of a delay on the catch so it feels like a slight lead fall but you get used to it he says. I'll upgrade soon. He likes the Goblins ability to let you down climb.

If you (OP) can't find the hardware you want, I can get you a Petzl Basic ascender - the original style that Petzl recommended for TR self belay (the new Basic, the Croll, and the Shunt are not suggested as self belay devices) - in unused condition for $50 shipped.

I don’t see any issue with using a toothed device for the primary. Especially if you have a proper setup and keep it taught. Then it is essentially just like weighting a jumar. When you’re TR soloing you’re not generating very large forces like when you’re leading. I think a lot of the fear of a toothed device is due to conflating a fall with a really large force, but a proper TR solo setup is essentially the same as jumaring just with feet and hands on the wall instead of on aid devices. I suspect this is why Petzl will actually semi-endorse devices for TR solo by providing formal documentation.  However no one lead solos with a toothed device because that would generate forces that could (and likely would) lead to a damaged rope. 

I use a grigri for solo lead, but I have been getting set up as top rope solo several times per week for a long time using Camp lift short looped to main harness with a chest harness to keep it high, with a ropeman2 dragging on a screamer set to a separate line. A few things I have learned.

If the climb is short, anchor at the half and set up on seperate lines instead stacking 2 different devices on the same line. I sometimes will set the second line to gear in addition to the same anchor.

Weight the rope.

If you are really working and have 2 lines going, skip the second redundant ascender idea and go straight to a gri gri on the back-up, it is a ton easier to descend on short notice.

Don't skimp on back up gear, especially if you are alone and remote. A prussik and a long runner to step into at a minimum, but I personally prefer a daisy chain set to a handled ascended and aider.

It might seem obvious, but if you're not topping out, you definitely need tools and a plan to get out of whatever rig you're in and get down which sounds obvious but is worth some practice in a safe place.

I go out of my way with colossus anchor rigs that would seem obsessive for a regular top rope. On one recent project I turned 80 and 100 foot lengths of 10mm static line into the world's largest quad and cordelette. The forces get a lot meaner close to the anchor, and it's not the place for featherweight dyneema.

It's true it's kind of like jumaring, but I find that it's almost inevitable that I end up one-handing a panicky pull through to get excess slack out of the system as falling on slack near the anchor is like andre the giant on your jumar.

I don't notice any real evidence that any of these, including the rescuecender, have much impact on sheath wear compared with other things.

Hang your rope w a fig 8 bunny ears. Put a microtrax on each line. Done.

Snow Flake wrote: Hang your rope w a fig 8 bunny ears. Put a microtrax on each line. Done.

+1. My setup exactly. 

The only time I use a double rope setup is on hard lower angle friction slab a long route where I want immediate lockup to minimize rope stretch and "road rash" in the event of a slip...
OR..
if it's a long route and I''m using a dynamic rope with the crux near the bottom to help prevent decking.

People TR solo on El Cap with a single mini/micro trax and nobody has died. 

The twin rope thing is whatever. People complain about the ‘redundancy’ and ‘rope abrasion.’ But again i will say this- How many people jug entire walls on a single ropes and live. The only argument for it, is what Sicgrips^^ just posted. If you’re worried, just use a re-belay, or rope protector.

Here’s my 2 settups. I use the RnL+micro for fast easy laps, and i use just the vergo +1  backup knot for working cruxes. 

Max R wrote: People TR solo on El Cap with a single mini/micro trax and nobody has died.

The twin rope thing is whatever. People complain about the ‘redundancy’ and ‘rope abrasion.’ But again i will say this- How many people jug entire walls on a single ropes and live. The only argument for it, is what Sicgrips^^ just posted. If you’re worried, just use a re-belay, or rope protector.

Here’s my 2 settups. I use the RnL+micro for fast easy laps, and i use just the vergo +1  backup knot for working cruxes. 

What’s the benefit of the vergo over a gri-gri? Is it easier since you are pulling sideways? Does anyone have recommendations for 30 degree+ overhangs?

Grigri absolutely sucks for TR solo. Try it. You’ll have to feed it by hand every move, unless you mod it. With the vergo, the rope travels through the device at a straighter angle. Add a litte bit of rope weight, and the device will feed like butter.