Plaquette/Guide Style Device

Hi all,

I am in the market for a new plaquette style device. I currently have a Reverso 4, but I am contemplating between a Pivot, ATC Guide, or Reverso. I know they all operate essentially the same. When updateing my device, I am looking for the device that has the least friction when bringing up a second in "Guide Mode". I already have a GIGI that I carry on longer routes, but would like a single device that is easiest on my elbows when climbing shorter multipitch routes. What are everyone's thoughts with regards to this?

Easiest on the elbows would definitely be a Grigri. I carry one in addition to the plaquette on short multi pitch routes (and some long ones too).
Otherwise, anything besides the Reverso. I've found it to have mucho drag. Make sure that you dedicate a nice round stock carabiner as the blocker too...

DMM Pivot

Both the Pivot and the ATC guide accept ropes to 11mm according to their spec sheets.  Some people claim the rotation of the Pivot makes it easier to pull in rope in guide mode, but I haven't tried one so I can't speak to that personally.  I agree with Mike that the blocking carabiner matters and a grigri is best for single followers.  I use the grigri more than anything else because of the ease of hauling, lowering, and lack of elbow pain.  I have a preference for the ATC-guide because I like the orientation on my belay loop if using it for ascending (when that rare occurrence happens) and it's cheaper for me than the Pivot.  

What's keeping you from using the GIGI for shorter climbs?  It's not good for lead belaying, but you can just give it to the leader for every pitch.  

Thanks Adam!

As a clarification,
When climbing most multipitch routes our party generally tends to carry one Gigi and one GriGri and switch at each belay. Where I currently am, most the multipitch routes are about 3 pitches in length. On these I like to just carry my "Guide" device to keep things less cluttered and simple, plus it is the most versitile belay device overall. I understand the added benefits of lowering with a Pivot, and the orientation difference with the ATC Guide. I've considered this, and I am basically just looking for the ranking of least friction to most friction when belaying from the top with those 3 devices. I hope this helps clarify my original question.

Thanks!

Right on, Chris.  In that case, the Pivot is probably your best bet.  

grigri

To be fair, a Gigi adds very little weight or bulk, and it is still easier to pull slack through than any tube style plaquette.

I cannot speak from direct experience, but I believe that the Mammut Bionic has the lowest friction in guide mode of any tube style device on the market.  If maximum versatility is what you are looking for, I would check out the the Gigajul.  

 ... but I honestly think the Gigi/Grigri is the best setup for short multi-pitch climbs with single ropes.  

Hey Karl,

Thanks for your reply. I have tried out the GigaJul thinking it would provide the most versatility. While I still believe it could theoretically be the most versatile, I there just seems to be way to much drag when belaying with this is any form (toprope, lead, or from above). In my experience, unless you are using ropes smaller than about 9.2, it is just a pain. But again, thanks for your input. I have not looked at the Mammut Bionic, that may be work checking out.

If you liked the Gigajul, except for the relatively high friction in guide mode, you might also want to check out the Mammut Alpine Smart.  It is a bit bulky for my taste, but guide mode is much lower friction.  

did you try the gigajul or megajul? i've had both and the gigajul is much better for friction. my favorite tuber

This chart is a bit dated. It comes from an old article on Www.cascadeclimbers.com
But, it is at least a starting point for discussion.

+1 for pivot 

Marty,

That is an interesting chart. This is essentially the data I am looking for. I wonder if there are any updated or newer more comprehensive versions of this.

Thanks!

did you try the gigajul or megajul?

Chris,
I tried out a GigaJul. It's interesting that you had that experience. In my experience the GigaJul was just very grippy and did let the rope slide through very easily at all. I committed to using it full time for about 2 months and had to switch back to my reverso because it was causing me some issues.

 Ovo or Gigi.  Weighs nothing, easy pull.  You could literally put it in your pocket.

I've used a few of the other devices mentioned--namely the gigajul and pivot--and like them a lot for certain uses, but my favorite guide-style device for multipitch is still the Bionic Alpine from Mammut. No fancy assisted-braking features (other than guide-mode), but it feeds and takes in <10mm ropes like a dream. It's also a lot more durable than full aluminum tubers like the pivot or reverso due to the use of steel for the rope-bearing surfaces.

If your main rope is >9.5ish, the Bionic and ATC guide are going to feed better than the pivot, reverso, gigajul, IMO. The latter two are better suited for slimmer singles or halves/twins. 

This review show a not well know device made by the Canadian business Grand Wall. I think you will find the conclusion interesting. 

https://www.verticallstore.com/blog/grand-wall-gimly-light-review

The DMM pivot does everything well. Of the 4 devices listed, it gets my vote. Aside from an Ovo/Gigi, it's the best for reeling in slack.

I am another big fan of the DMM Pivot. One of the smoothest devices I've ever owned.

Eric Barrett