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Josh Rappoport
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Jun 7, 2020
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Natick, MA
· Joined Sep 2017
· Points: 31
Canvassing opinions and preferences for getting up a single rope such as in "The Climber Pickoff" scenario explained in the SPI Manual (page 221): What is the best arrangement to make an ascender with things that should be on your harness (e.g. slings, cord, carabiners)? My preference is probably a Bachmann knot, but I wanted to see what other people think
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Gunkiemike
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Jun 7, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 3,687
There's more to it than the knot you choose. But in that department, I dislike the bachman. It's too easy to pull on the carabiner and cause the thing to slip. My preference - klemmheist. Easier to bump up than a prusik and it works in any cord or webbing.
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Clint Cummins
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Jun 7, 2020
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Palo Alto, CA
· Joined Jan 2007
· Points: 1,738
In my experience, the best way to get up a single rope on a steep face without mechanical ascenders is with 2 prusik knots on 5mm cords. This is best because you can quickly loosen it and move it up the rope to its next position. Other things like thin or thick slings tend to be difficult to loosen, slide down, etc. I have tried the Bachmann knot, and it does not stay compact.
Try them out and you will quickly get a feeling for how well each works.
I don't normally carry two 5mm cords, but I do have one for the waist tie on my chalk bag.
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Robert S
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Jun 7, 2020
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Driftwood, TX
· Joined Sep 2018
· Points: 661
Just do what the manual says. It works.
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Adam Fleming
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Jun 7, 2020
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AMGA Certified Rock Guide,…
· Joined Jun 2015
· Points: 497
Grigri with a klemheist made of cord for the foot loop. Optional redirect to make it a 3:1.
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Cairn War Machine
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Jun 7, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2018
· Points: 6
Sterling hollow block with a Klemheist above my belay device. Depending on how much I need to ascend, I can clip 2 alpine draws to the Klemheist and give myself a foot loop. Normally I either use a smart or a grigri as my belay device, and I'll redirect the tail of the rope up to my Klemheist to give me a 3:1 advantage.
If for whatever reason if I don't have a belay device. There's a knot that uses 2 biners and auto blocks the rope when weighted. But for the life of me I can't remember the name of it!
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acrophobe
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Jun 7, 2020
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Orange, CT
· Joined Jul 2010
· Points: 0
For unexpected use I have always preferred the Klemheist, since it works well with slings as well as cord. If I thought I was likely to need to ascend a rope, I would take the appropriate gear for a VT knot (Valdotain Tresse). It is far more efficient than Prussik/Klemheist/autoblock knots. You do not have to loosen it each time you want to slide it up the rope.
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acrophobe
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Jun 7, 2020
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Orange, CT
· Joined Jul 2010
· Points: 0
Peter G, I believe you are referring to the Garda Hitch.
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Franco McClimber
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Jun 7, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Feb 2020
· Points: 0
Cairn War Machine
wrote:
Sterling hollow block with a Klemheist above my belay device. Depending on how much I need to ascend, I can clip 2 alpine draws to the Klemheist and give myself a foot loop. Normally I either use a smart or a grigri as my belay device, and I'll redirect the tail of the rope up to my Klemheist to give me a 3:1 advantage.
If for whatever reason if I don't have a belay device. There's a knot that uses 2 biners and auto blocks the rope when weighted. But for the life of me I can't remember the name of it! Are you thinking of an alpine clutch ?
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Andrew Blease
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Jun 7, 2020
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Asheville, NC
· Joined Apr 2010
· Points: 445
I like a RADS system for short ascents, it's quick to set up with a grigri or plaquette device. It is also a quick, and relatively safe transition from up to down.
If I am planning to ascend a rope I bring my micro trax, hand ascender, and foot ascender for a rope walking set up. The benefit is more efficiency and the ability to easily switch to TR solo when moving over easier terrain. The trax will also work as your progress capture with a RADS system. Sometimes I pin the trax to a chest harness and use it as a foot lock progress capture as well.
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Cairn War Machine
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Jun 7, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2018
· Points: 6
That's them! The Garda Hitch/ Alpine Clutch. Same knot just with different names. Super handy to know in rescue situations.
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Zacks
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Jun 7, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2015
· Points: 65
Usually end up just using a prussic because in situ I am super confident setting it up ect. Ast year I was rapping into something and realized my ropes was getting wedged in a crack so I had to jug the line and adjust my anchor.
Problem was I was on a megajul backwards to rap so it locks if I tried to take up and jug. Had to go direct to a prussic (and backup knot) and flip the device. I was comfortable doing this on a prussic 300 ft up. Less so on other knots I have less experience using in real life.
If I'm on the ground sure I'll set up a kleimheist and grigri. But if I'm on the ground cragging I'll grab a micro trax or Jumar out of my pack.
Actually just the other day someone had to jug a fixed line to free a stuck rope. They had a micro trax and I lent them my assender so it went pretty fast. It's nice to be prepared (I only had it for lazy TR)
So really if the question is what do you use in an emergency then the answer is whatever you are comfortable using under pressure.
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wivanoff
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Jun 7, 2020
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Northeast, USA
· Joined Mar 2012
· Points: 719
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Cairn War Machine
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Jun 7, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2018
· Points: 6
wivanoff
wrote:
FB-Sling Friction knot: gudelius.de/fb1.htm Interesting. it's basically the same as a Klemheist. I'll have to try it later today and see how much that overhand really helps.
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Josh Rappoport
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Jun 7, 2020
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Natick, MA
· Joined Sep 2017
· Points: 31
I find the Klem hard to slide up. At least harder than the Bachmann
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Mike
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Jun 8, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Dec 2013
· Points: 30
Josh Rappoport
wrote:
Canvassing opinions and preferences for getting up a single rope such as in "The Climber Pickoff" scenario explained in the SPI Manual (page 221): What is the best arrangement to make an ascender with things that should be on your harness (e.g. slings, cord, carabiners)? My preference is probably a Bachmann knot, but I wanted to see what other people think Do you get a belay device?
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Josh Rappoport
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Jun 8, 2020
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Natick, MA
· Joined Sep 2017
· Points: 31
Mike
wrote:
Do you get a belay device? Assisted Braking Device of your choice (i.e. GriGri)
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Mike
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Jun 8, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Dec 2013
· Points: 30
Then klemheist above a grigri, with a foot loop on the klemheist. Easy to tie, works quickly, way easier than two pussics, very easy to set up to descend.
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Derek DeBruin
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Jun 8, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2010
· Points: 1,094
A few things fo note as they relate specifically to the rope ascension system presented in the SPI curriculum:
- This is a counter balance system as presented in the SPI manual. Consequently, anything not relying on the belay device already in use in a climber pickoff scenario requires a load transfer. Therefore, when possible, it's best to simply belay with a mechanical ABD (as opposed to a geometry based one) such as the GriGri as it eliminates the need for a load transfer and subsequent transition.
- If you're already doing the belaying, depending on the context and the nature of the crag, you may not need a friction hitch at all. It's often possible to perform a counter balance ascent to a climber using just a GriGri and the footholds already available on a route. When well practiced and skillfully executed, this can be done quite quickly.
- If a friction hitch is needed, shorter folks tend to prefer a klemheist in a 4 foot sling. Taller folks often prefer a prussik with a 4 foot sling clipped below. Both hitches are fine; the difference is simply the length of the foot loop.
- If the belay must be transferred prior to ascending (because someone else is belaying), either hitch can facilitate the load transfer and then be used for ascending. Note that if a klemheist is used and tied in with a 4 foot sling, simply clipping the end of the sling to someone's belay loop to make the load transfer can place the hitch out of reach overhead, making it quite difficult to return the load from this hitch to the belay device. If a klemheist constructed from a long sling, it should be tied off short for the load transfer.
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