Protecting run-outs

Hello all! I am curious as to what is other people's opinions on what gear to use protecting run-outs on sport climbing routes? I am usually willing to be pretty bold, but some routes I get quite nervous on being far away from the nearest bolt. I don't neccersarily have a ton of interest into getting into dedicated trad climbing quite yet in my career, as I enjoy simple single pitch sport climbing, top-roping, and bouldering mainly. My thoughts are:
- Cams are your sorta do all - need all, yes but are pretty spendy (college budget).
- Nuts / hexes are a bit cheaper but are probably more limited in application? Maybe? Once again not much of a trad climber.
- Manning up a bit is free, but also being safe is smarter? I'd rather spend a tad bit of cash for the ease of mind.

Thanks all!!

** Bonus points for recommendations for length of static rope to develop some boulders!! (I'm thinking 30-40' but I may be dead wrong)

Andrew Ferris wrote: Hello all! I am curious as to what is other people's opinions on what gear to use protecting run-outs on sport climbing routes? I am usually willing to be pretty bold, but some routes I get quite nervous on being far away from the nearest bolt. I don't neccersarily have a ton of interest into getting into dedicated trad climbing quite yet in my career, as I enjoy simple single pitch sport climbing, top-roping, and bouldering mainly. My thoughts are:
- Cams are your sorta do all - need all, yes but are pretty spendy (college budget).
- Nuts / hexes are a bit cheaper but are probably more limited in application? Maybe? Once again not much of a trad climber.
- Manning up a bit is free, but also being safe is smarter? I'd rather spend a tad bit of cash for the ease of mind.

Thanks all!!

** Bonus points for recommendations for length of static rope to develop some boulders!! (I'm thinking 30-40' but I may be dead wrong)

Your best bet is to talk to experienced folks who climb where you climb. 

Or just do the climbs with friendly bolting: there's certainly enough beta on this site to achieve that.

But I guess if someone said that they were going to drop me at a random crag somewhere in the world and what 4 pieces of gear would I like to bring, I'd probably take 0.4-1 Camalots. If only 2 pieces, 0.4 and 0.75.

If it takes gear, it's really not much of a sport climb.  

Maybe just don't climb trad climbs until you are at the point "in your career" where you want to learn how to place gear.  There's more to placing gear than owning gear.  

Maybe either only climb run out stuff you feel confident on or climb harder stuff with confidence-inspiring protection?

Or buy a single set of cams, some nuts, and some alpine draws, and start doing trad climbs.  That's my general recommendation.

For your needs, I think a stick clip is your best bet. Not all sport run outs will be gear protectable. If the run out doesn't feel safe, go in direct to a bolt and stick clip the next one. If you care about leading the route clean, place an extra really long draw on the bolt above the run out to give you a clip in the middle of the gap.

This is all relative to specific routes.  Cams and nuts don't work on blank slabs or overhanging caves without constrictions or pockets in the rock.  Since you're talking runout, I'm assuming this climbing is somewhat slabby.  

My advice - talk to some local climbers.  Chances are they either don't consider what you're talking about runout or there is climb specific gear that will help facilitate run outs between bolts. Small/med nuts aren't a bad starting point but learn how to use them from someone who knows.

Regarding the boulders, 30-40 should be plenty. Clean on rappel or learn to TR solo for highball projects.

Andrew Ferris wrote: Hello all! I am curious as to what is other people's opinions on what gear to use protecting run-outs on sport climbing routes? 

If you need “gear” you’re not sport climbing.

Alex R wrote: For your needs, I think a stick clip is your best bet. Not all sport run outs will be gear protectable. If the run out doesn't feel safe, go in direct to a bolt and stick clip the next one. If you care about leading the route clean, place an extra really long draw on the bolt above the run out to give you a clip in the middle of the gap.

This is likely the best answer and it can help save ankles for clipping the first (and sometimes second) bolt.  

Andrew Ferris wrote: 
- Nuts / hexes are a bit cheaper but are probably more limited in application? Maybe? Once again not much of a trad climber.

This should prove to yourself that you don't know how to properly set gear. So, find a mentor/more experienced trad climbing partner and follow and clean him/her up a dozen pitches to learn and observe how and see how gear is placed. Try placing gear on TR with two ropes and try falling on gear to boost your morale with the TR as a backup if you need too. It's a good learning tool. 

Andrew Ferris wrote: Hello all! I am curious as to what is other people's opinions on what gear to use protecting run-outs on sport climbing routes? I am usually willing to be pretty bold, but some routes I get quite nervous on being far away from the nearest bolt. I don't neccersarily have a ton of interest into getting into dedicated trad climbing quite yet in my career, as I enjoy simple single pitch sport climbing, top-roping, and bouldering mainly. My thoughts are:
- Cams are your sorta do all - need all, yes but are pretty spendy (college budget).
- Nuts / hexes are a bit cheaper but are probably more limited in application? Maybe? Once again not much of a trad climber.
- Manning up a bit is free, but also being safe is smarter? I'd rather spend a tad bit of cash for the ease of mind.

Thanks all!!

** Bonus points for recommendations for length of static rope to develop some boulders!! (I'm thinking 30-40' but I may be dead wrong)

Please don't take this as sarcasm but clearly 'the appropriate protection' is the obvious answer.  Some routes will take a bomber nut, some a bomber cam, some a hex etc.  Place whatever gear is going to offer the best protection in that particular situation. BTW, there's no point at all in protecting a sports route with gear if you don't know how to place gear :-)

At a minimum, esp if cost is an issue, I'd buy a set of Wild Country Classic Rocks (pictured).
https://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/wild-country-classic-rock-set-1-10-uni-set/WCROCKSET1-10?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI76-Wmfrk6QIV1Q0rCh12kgs_EAQYASABEgJZN_D_BwE

I'd get a 60m static if you want to develop boulders.  You'll find that you may need to use trees etc as an anchor (esp if you don't know how to build one from gear). Also, with a longer static you can Top Rope solo and use the rope as two strands with a device on each (there's lots of threads here on that).  Later, you can cut the long static up and use as a shorter length for a Top Roping static.  

Andrew Ferris wrote: Hello all! I am curious as to what is other people's opinions on what gear to use protecting run-outs on sport climbing routes?

If a sport route is runout, don't lead it unless you're solid at the grade. Unless it was retrobolted, there probably aren't any meaningful gear placements anyway.

Since everyone hates Linkcams you might be able to get them used cheaply, and as two or three cover a very wide range, they may solve your problem as emergency runout pieces. Plus, since you’re new, you’ll probably get them stuck fairly soon, at which point you’ll be ready to invest in proper gear. 

Lol, just because its bolted doesn't not mean that it's a sport route. Check out Matrix at Roger's slide. Fully bolted, absolutely not a sport route.

It's very route intensive, every climb/rock face is different. Also, sometimes outside routes aren't bolted every 5 feet. 

What are considering a runout? No gear or bolt for how far? Fi Fi hooks? But still it depends on the route. Like the route Run For Your Life out in J Tree. Everyone thinks that is runout. But the falls are safe even so. So it is not even a PG rating. Runouts are not that bad if they don't have the PG or R rating. So to speak. Don't quote me on that. Because everything you climb is on you. Yeah I like what he said above. Climb on something in your on-sight abilities. If they are too run out. Or be bold and do them anyway. Your call. 

IMO your best option is actually tricams, specifically the smaller sizes black pink and red.  Here’s why:
1) Super cheap (you could get the full set for easily under $100 and probably closer to $50 if you watch the sales)
2) Lightweight (you won’t notice them on your harness and so can bring them up every time)
3) Most likely to find placements on sport routes.  Since most sport routes don’t necessarily follow a crack, cams are debatably useful; however, you almost certainly will find a tiny pod, pocket; etc that will eat up a tricam.  This goes especially for limestone.
4) Easy to place once you practice it.  Tricams get a bad rep for being hard to place mainly because most trad climbers don’t use them very often, but once you learn how they work they’re actually quite easy to place and aren’t as susceptible to lifting out with upward pull as nuts or walking like cams.

No one’s going to lug even a single rack of cams or set of nuts with them every time, but you won’t even notice a set of tricams on your harness until you need them.

As much as I hate Tricams, rock in the Black Hills granite takes Tricams very well, at least for the leader, they suck to clean. I am not familiar with the limestone of Spearfish, so this only goes for the Needles and Mt. Rushmore.

Small camming units also seem to be especially useful in BH granite, but if a climb is bolted, there probably won't be a crack available to use. Four Little Fishies is a "Sport" route in name only (Four Little Fishies  in 130 feet of climbing)

For instance, Gericrawl in the Outlets area on Old Peoples Dome, has a terrible runout that will put you near the ground if you blow it. Protects with a finger sized cam/nut, and then a larger cam at the horizontal break 30 feet higher.

I was going to tell you that most sport routes are safe, even if they seem runout to a newer climber. However, I see you climb in the Black Hills. God help you.

I’m always amazed when people don’t know the definition of “sport climbing” vs “climbing”..... I guess this is one of those times.

Herb Conn- a distant relative of mine- once said something along the line of “If you’re strong, you can climb every inch of the Black Hills”

I’ve never climbed their but if it’s anything like other old time spots- YV, Boulder, TM etc do not expect bolts to be littered all over the climbs. Those old dads were poor, lazy and had to hand drill, add to that the fact that a person’s manhood would be called out if even one extra bolt was placed

Stick to modern “sport climbing” if you’re looking for well protected climbs, not some face climb done in 1965. 

How does this help the thread starter?

Big Dick Johnson wrote: ... festooing. ....

this (festooning).  unless it is a mixed route, gear usually won't help as there likely won't be placements.  if you really want to lead the route in some way, but don't want to deal with the runouts, festooning allows you to do this without affecting the route / others' experience.  it is also a good way to headpoint a route by adjusting where the festoon is and making it more runout each time.  you might get some guff for it, but it will probably be from twenty-somethings who climb 5.8 (or fifty-somethings that climb 5.8).  big deal.  you aren't a pro (and neither are they).

Kellen Miller wrote: What are considering a runout? No gear or bolt for how far? Fi Fi hooks? But still it depends on the route. Like the route Run For Your Life out in J Tree. Everyone thinks that is runout. But the falls are safe even so. So it is not even a PG rating. Runouts are not that bad if they don't have the PG or R rating. So to speak. Don't quote me on that. Because everything you climb is on you. Yeah I like what he said above. Climb on something in your on-sight abilities. If they are too run out. Or be bold and do them anyway. Your call. 

Lol.. I’m not sure you understand what a fifi hook is.