One rope for both mountaineering and sport climbing or one for each?

I'm just getting into climbing but I'm particularly interested in mountaineering. I often climb with my friend who has plenty of ropes but I don't want to always depend on him for a rope. I'm thinking of either buying a longer, high quality dry rope, probably 9.5mm x 70m, or a shorter, 8-8.5 mm x 30 m dry rope for glacier travel and a separate 9.5-9.8mm non-dry rope for sport climbing with friends. My thinking with the first option is that I would suck it up, and carry the extra long rope, even during mountaineering and glacier travel (i tend not to mind extra weight on my hikes), or I could cut it into two separate portions. Maybe a 30m and a 40m?

Any suggestions? My overall budget is $220.

You are going to find yourself pretty damn limited doing anything in the mountains with a 30m short cord.  Complicated crevasse rescue?  Screwed.  More than two people?  Screwed.  Rappelling more than 15m?  Screwed.  If you will be doing a lot of mountaineering you will be spending big $$ on gas, food, boots etc so just buy a 60m rope.  

If you want to go light and a bit cheaper just buy a HALF (not Twin) rated rope.  They do prove handy cragging on rock when you need to do full length rappels or top ropes.  Twins stretch too much to be useful anyway.

You can get two ropes within your budget from EpicTV.

Beal Zenith 9.5x70M single, no treatment:
https://shop.epictv.com/en/single-ropes/beal/zenith-95mm?sku=BC095Z70B

Tendon Master 7.8x50M half/twin with full dry treatment:
https://shop.epictv.com/en/ropes/tendon/master-78-complete-shield-2015?sku=TENS18_ROPM78CS_BLU50

When starting out and kit building, buy the gear (rope) you need NOW. Don't buy the gear (rope) you think you'll need later. I'm guessing this translates into buying your own sport rope. Buy the one that will get the most use, right away.

Thus you will avoid the pitfall of making large purchases for something that never comes to pass. And you'll also discover you can get by on a lot less than our consumer colleagues will let on.

One other thing about mountaineering ropes - its not just you that has to suck it up to carry a needlessly heavy rope. Your partner has to carry it too.

A pair of half ropes served most of my mountaineering /alpine rock needs the best. Many times I only took a single half rope along, if the anticipated rope work was short and light, or the ground was super easy. Double it up if there is an odd cruxy section or something. Bring both ropes for more serious climbs or where multiple raps are needed. The great thing is each partner can carry one. My half ropes weigh 3 pounds each (60m) and some change and aren't very bulky, so this makes for smaller packs too.

In the end if you stick around you'll end up with lots of ropes. Sport cords, big wall ropes, static, old fuzzy top roping retirees, fast and light skinny and dry super-ropes, on and on. Remember, ropes are consumables, just like slings and shoes. The ropes come and go. When you do get a super rope for your hard mountain sends, only use it for its intended purpose. Use your other ropes for the day to day sporting and such.

One final note - always climb on your partner's rope, if she volunteers it. Better to use hers and save yours for the rainy day. But don't be a dick about it ;)

I had a similar question a few years ago when I started. Fortunately there is a very simple answer: get the longer rope for mountaineering. The only real question is between a 60m and a 70m. There are definitely established routes where a 60m just won't cut it - I was on one this past Saturday. Great route, but two of four pitches were within 20 feet of 70m. Get something on the thin side and light. My 95.mm Maxim rope weighs 10 pounds, which is sort of a lot for what I really want to do with it (peak bag CA 14ers), and is even sort of long for that purpose. But I can just get tougher by carrying the extra weight.

Definitely look at the routes you intend to do most and sooner, and buy the rope you need for that. One thing, is that depending where you live you might have regular access to sport routes or shorter crags, as opposed to long mountaineering routes. Get what you can use now to start with.

That said, the sport rope question is more complex. I don't want to whip on my 9.5mm over and over again (and have my buddies do it, too) until it's wiped out before its time. In fact I'm looking at buying a new rope just for sport (because I need to get stronger). But I won't buy a nice dry treated rope for sport.

Jared Chrysostom wrote: You can get two ropes within your budget from EpicTV.

Beal Zenith 9.5x70M single, no treatment:
https://shop.epictv.com/en/single-ropes/beal/zenith-95mm?sku=BC095Z70B

Tendon Master 7.8x50M half/twin with full dry treatment:
https://shop.epictv.com/en/ropes/tendon/master-78-complete-shield-2015?sku=TENS18_ROPM78CS_BLU50

Serenity Dry 8.7x30M triple

https://shop.epictv.com/en/ropes/mammut/87-serenity-dry-2015?sku=2010-02622ASS30

Trango catalyst 9.0 70m Unicore
https://trango.com/collections/rope/products/catalyst-9-0mm

Kevin Mokracek wrote: Trango catalyst 9.0 70m Unicore
https://trango.com/collections/rope/products/catalyst-9-0mm

Huh, the 70m works out to 8.2 pounds, which is just about 2 pounds lighter than my Maxim. I'll have to look into that when the time comes to swap out... which hopefully will be awhile still.

YOLOLZ Bicarbonate wrote: Fortunately there is a very simple answer: get the longer rope for mountaineering. The only real question is between a 60m and a 70m. There are definitely established routes where a 60m just won't cut it - I was on one this past Saturday. Great route, but two of four pitches were within 20 feet of 70m. Get something on the thin side and light. My 95.mm Maxim rope weighs 10 pounds, which is sort of a lot for what I really want to do with it (peak bag CA 14ers), and is even sort of long for that purpose.

I think it's extremely improbable that a 60m rope isn't long enough for any mountaineering routes in the country.  Remember that pretty much any mountaineering route climbable by mortals was probably put up before 60m ropes even existed, and done with a 40m or 50m rope.  Perhaps you could clarify which routes required a 70m rope, and why that long of a rope was necessary?  Maybe we're not thinking of the same types of routes?

Uh guys..........

Skinny ropes for beginning climbers?  

And the question was one rope or two, with the clear intention to go SPORT CLIMBING.  And also mountaineering.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I think it's extremely improbable that a 60m rope isn't long enough for any mountaineering routes in the country.  Remember that pretty much any mountaineering route climbable by mortals was probably put up before 60m ropes even existed, and done with a 40m or 50m rope.  Perhaps you could clarify which routes required a 70m rope, and why that long of a rope was necessary?  Maybe we're not thinking of the same types of routes?

I like a 70 m because you can extend pitches if wanted.  It just allows more flexibility.  

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I think it's extremely improbable that a 60m rope isn't long enough for any mountaineering routes in the country.  Remember that pretty much any mountaineering route climbable by mortals was probably put up before 60m ropes even existed, and done with a 40m or 50m rope.  Perhaps you could clarify which routes required a 70m rope, and why that long of a rope was necessary?  Maybe we're not thinking of the same types of routes?

My comment on needing a 70 meter rope was in regard to non-mountaineering routes. Plenty of multi-pitch crags have 70 meter pitches. For actual mountaineering you’re right regarding shorter pitches, but it’s also nice to be able to get a long rappel. 

Thank you all for replies! I think I'll just get two separate ropes as needed - one for sport and one for mountaineering. I can also increase my budget, since my life depends on this stuff and i do plan to climb a lot more throughout my youth.

For your program if I could only have one rope I would go with a Beal Opera 60 meters.
2 ropes I would go with a beefy 70 meters rope for cragging and a Beal Opera 50 meters for mountaineering.

Wyatt Frakes wrote: Thank you all for replies! I think I'll just get two separate ropes as needed - one for sport and one for mountaineering. I can also increase my budget, since my life depends on this stuff and i do plan to climb a lot more throughout my youth.

FYI  This is a red herring.  All modern ropes (in decent shape and used properly) will keep you alive.

Xam wrote:

FYI  This is a red herring.  All modern ropes (in decent shape and used properly) will keep you alive.

I appreciate the sentiment but I think you actually stated the point of my comment. Believe what you will but I tend to believe that USUALLY you get what you pay for. So if I pay more money for a 'better' rope, then I expect to get more years/more use out of said rope, therefore extending the longevity of my use of that rope as a survival tool.

Wyatt Frakes wrote: I'm just getting into climbing but I'm particularly interested in mountaineering. I often climb with my friend who has plenty of ropes but I don't want to always depend on him for a rope. I'm thinking of either buying a longer, high quality dry rope, probably 9.5mm x 70m, or a shorter, 8-8.5 mm x 30 m dry rope for glacier travel and a separate 9.5-9.8mm non-dry rope for sport climbing with friends. My thinking with the first option is that I would suck it up, and carry the extra long rope, even during mountaineering and glacier travel (i tend not to mind extra weight on my hikes), or I could cut it into two separate portions. Maybe a 30m and a 40m?

Any suggestions? My overall budget is $220.

I was having the same thoughts about six years ago when I was planning a 2-person unguided trip up the DC route on Mt. Rainier.  I bought a 9.3mm, 60m dry-treated rope with the idea that I could also use it for sport climbing.  It definitely seemed like too much rope to lug around for that route for a 2-person team.  Now I have a 9.9mm, 70m non-treated for sport and a new 7.7mm, 37m dry-treated for a 2-person team on glacier, which I haven't used yet.  I got all three ropes on sale, so I didn't spend a fortune.  Maybe some MP Rainier experts can let me know if they think a 7.7mm, 37m, rope is inadequate for a 2-person team on the DC route.

In sport climbing, the rope is your primary means of protection - if you're not falling you're probably not trying. In technical mountaineering the mindset is very different. In this case, the rope is your last line of defense, it may not protect you, and it could actually increase your danger if used improperly. Seeing as you're just getting into climbing, my advice is to buy a workhorse sport climbing rope and put lots of mileage on it.

Sport climbing is a much more forgiving environment, so there's much more scope to safely self-teach by reading good books and watching good videos. You're more likely to go sport climbing or even just top-roping with other novices who may not have a rope themselves, so having your own rope gives you more options to line up trips and gain experience. All climbing is dangerous, but in a cragging context people usually die because of the subjective hazards (human error) that can be mitigated by a safety-oriented mindset, diligent study, and common sense decisions. And if you really want to move fast over technical terrain in the mountains, you need good cardio and lots and lots of mileage rock climbing so you should start building that experience base ASAP. Be cool, give safe belays, build a network of like-minded climbers, get out there and have some fun.

Mountaineering, by contrast, is a much less forgiving environment. Objective hazards like loose rock, glaciated terrain, mountain weather - all of these things can look pretty benign until you're in over your head. If you're doing the kind of mountaineering where a rope is required, you should really be going with an experienced partner or a guide who will have the appropriate team equipment. When you do go out with other novices, develop experience by setting modest goals and working up incrementally. Do lots and lots of unroped scrambling on moderate terrain. Then, when you're ready to advance to more technical mountaineering, you'll have a better idea what kind of rope will suit your needs and you'll move with much more confidence because of your rock climbing experience.

Wyatt Frakes wrote:

So if I pay more money for a 'better' rope, then I expect to get more years/more use out of said rope, therefore extending the longevity of my use of that rope as a survival tool.

Ethan, be really careful with this assumption.  Spending more money on a rope doesn't (at all) mean it will last longer.  For example, some really expensive ropes are the new breed of ultralight triple-rated ropes, which are expensive due to difficult materials, construction, and market pricing of perceived value, and will likely be the type of rope to have the shortest lifetime.  Think of it like a Corolla vs. a Ferrari, you don't expect a Ferrari to go 200,000 miles because it costs more.  On the flip side, lots of cheap burly ropes exist that will last forever.

Also, be aware that there are lots of different ways a rope can wear out, depending on the usage, and you want to be careful to match the rope to how it will be used.  For example, if you take a lot of whips working hard routes, you might kill the core when the rope still looks great.  If you drag your rope up a bunch of wandering alpine routes on sharp rock, the sheath will get shredded and fuzzy long before the core wears out.  Your fancy dry treated ice/mountain rope will turn into a sponge if you drag it up a few rock pitches, and thus be useless for its intended purpose.

YOLOLZ Bicarbonate wrote:
Plenty of multi-pitch crags have 70 meter pitches.

No they don't.  When a 70m rope is required, it is generally for single pitch routes longer than 30m (thus needing 70m to lower or top rope), or for rappels that are 35 meters.  It is extremely uncommon for a single pitch of climbing to be longer than 60m (and even fairly uncommon for single pitches to be longer than 40 or 50m).  Leading for 230 feet is really difficult in most situations due to the amount of gear required, rope drag, rope stretch in the case of a fall, communication, etc.

70m ropes can be very useful depending on where you live and climb, but not because you need to climb 68m straight on a multipitch, and especially not at easier grades or on wandering alpine routes.

JJ Colima wrote:
Maybe some MP Rainier experts can let me know if they think a 7.7mm, 37m, rope is inadequate for a 2-person team on the DC route.

Seems like a great rope choice for that objective!

johndrico wrote: Mountaineering, by contrast, is a much less forgiving environment. Objective hazards like loose rock, glaciated terrain, mountain weather - all of these things can look pretty benign until you're in over your head. If you're doing the kind of mountaineering where a rope is required, you should really be going with an experienced partner or a guide who will have the appropriate team equipment. When you do go out with other novices, develop experience by setting modest goals and working up incrementally. Do lots and lots of unroped scrambling on moderate terrain. Then, when you're ready to advance to more technical mountaineering, you'll have a better idea what kind of rope will suit your needs and you'll move with much more confidence because of your rock climbing experience.

I’m going into the military as an officer very soon and would love more than anything to climb a mountain out west (I’ve hiked/climbed/scrambled multiple in the East) before I go to OCS. I was originally planning to do Gannett Peak, WY but I’ve realized the truth in what you say and therefore Glacier travel is something I should avoid.

Do you have recommendations for any mountains that require an ice axe and crampons, or at least some decent snow travel, and some of these moderate scrambles you mention?
i was looking into Mount Shasta, which only appears to have one glaciated route, leaving a handful of routes that mostly involve scrambling. Is that correct?

Any recommendations from anyone?

Ethan,
You only need crampons and ice ax for glaciated or steep terrain.  A mishap in either situation often results in serious injury or death.  You should go with a partner or small group that has the proper equipment and experience.  Then with more experience decide if you want to commit to soloing alpine objectives.