2nd set of ice tools

I currently climb WI3-4 and I use Nomics. They work fine. My wife is looking to get her own set of tools and I could just get her a set of Nomics, but I would prefer to get something different. I have been thinking of getting more into mixed climbing. I have read that people like the X-Dream as it seems they can do a little bit of everything.  If you already had a set of Nomics what would you get for a 2nd set of tools? 

I climb on the X-mountains but have swung the X-Dreams and like them a lot.  Used them side by side with the Nomics one day in February and found them to be more comfortable with a better swing for me.

X-mountain for the flexibility if you do anything alpine or something more aggressive than the nomics if you're in to hard dry tooling.

If the second set of tools is for your wife...you should get what she wants to climb with, not the set of tools you wish you had. Also people climb plenty hard mixed routes with Nomics. That tool is not going to be the difference between you sending and not sending.

My partner likes the Nomics, but often wishes they were a bit lighter in the head. She took the pick weights off which helped some with the balance of the swing for her.

I have friends with smaller hands (both male and female) who really like the Cassin X-All Mountains, Trango Raptors, and Grivel North Machines because they have less weight in the head and a grip that's not as big around. Of those three tools, the Raptor is the most aggressive and closest to the design of the Nomic as far as geometry goes.

The Cassin X-Dreams, while they're excellently balanced in the swing, have a larger handle than the X-All Mountains (or Nomics for that matter). At the far end of the spectrum, the Grivel Tech Machines might have the biggest handle of any tool out there. Most of the BD tools are weighted more in the head of the tool and have a "thuggier" feel to the swing that I've heard folks with shorter arms tend to be less enamored of.

I would recommend the X Dream but like it has been said above let your wife choose.  My wife kept stealing my X Dreams so we now have 3 pair of X dreams in our “quiver” (sorry couldn’t resist from another thread). Along with nomics and a bunch of other tools. Personally the X Dream is our favorite!

Sorry, should have clarified that better. When we climb together on multipitch routes she will use the Nomics and I’ll be using the second set of tools. I think I will get a pair of the X- dreams. There are some good deals going on right now. Stimulus check will go to good use. 

+1 for the Trango Raptors being great for small hands. If you had them, I bet you'd be fighting with your wife over who gets to use them. And I'm seeing them now for $279 FOR A PAIR. I've used mine up to M7 with no complaints.

Has she climbed on your Nomics? Does she like them? A lot of women of average upper body strength appreciate a lighter tool. I'd consider something like Grivel North Machines for her to learn on.

If you want to use this as an excuse to get yourself new tools and you want something more aggressive I'd look at the Ergonomics. They don't suck. You're already invested in the Petzl system and they share parts. 

I have a set of Nomics and X-dreams and have climbed for several seasons in lots of different terrain on each.  Overall I have found the X-dream to preform worse on moderate terrain.  The angle of the tool is so aggressive that the handle will hit on the ice at the same time the pick hits the ice.  If you are swinging over a little bulge as found on rolling WI3 terrain I have to add a little bit of a hack to the end of the swing to avoid hitting the handle.  I have lent out the X-dream to several partners who have this same complaint.  The X-dream works on par with the Nomic on anything steep though.  And for dry or mixed terrain the X-dream works better than the Nomic (in my opinion.....the handle is bigger and the 2nd grip feels much better on the X-dream when you are pulling on overhanging rock).  For me, the Nomic feels like a more natural swing and I like the heavier head.  Although if you take the pick weights off they feel more similar.  Finally I think the new Petzl Pur'Ice picks are really nice.  I feel like they clean easier, and get good penetration with just a wrist flick better than any other pick I have tried.  So that is my $.02 on a direct comparison from the last several years.

jdejace wrote: Has she climbed on your Nomics? Does she like them? A lot of women of average upper body strength appreciate a lighter tool. I'd consider something like Grivel North Machines for her to learn on.

If you want to use this as an excuse to get yourself new tools and you want something more aggressive I'd look at the Ergonomics. They don't suck. You're already invested in the Petzl system and they share parts. 

Yeah she likes them.  We tried some of the Grivel tools. They were nice. The picks seemed a lot burlier than the petzl picks.  over all I felt they were very similar to the Nomics. Sticking with petzl might be a good idea. it would be nice to be able to exchange picks.  

As climbing gets steeper, the main differentiator between ice tools of a given geometry is handle comfort / grip security.  So, whichever tools fit your hands / your wife's hands the best will ultimately be what you will probably want to climb with the most.  

Handle comfort and grip security are idiosyncratic, so it hard to generalize.  For example, people with wide hands may not be able to use the X-Dreams or Fuels with thick gloves.  Some people find that the handle on the North Machines is too round.  Some people find the handle on the Ergonomics too rectangular.  Some people find Nomic handles too narrow.  Some people modify Tech Machine handles with rotary grinders to eliminate hot spots and make them fit their hands better.  Some people wrap their handles for better comfort or security.  A select few people even go through the trouble of replacing the stock handle with a custom handle.  

All of these tools will perform similarly, once you normalize the pick geometry.  There is no tool on the market that is universally better than all the others.  After trying virtually every ice tool currently available in the North American market, I eventually settled on the Grivel Tech Machines (after making significant alterations to the handle).  

If possible, try before you buy.  If not, I recommend looking for something used or steeply discounted, so you will not loose much money if you decide to sell them later.