Adhesive Database and general discussion

Salamanizer Ski wrote: Looking through the database I was curious that I didn’t find anything regarding Simpson strong-tie products as they’re relatively cheap and available at any Home Depot.

Specifically the SET-XP, AT-XP, and SET 3G products. Just wondering how they stack up against the more popular products used for anchoring stainless rod bolts of varying types. I need anchoring adhesives for dummies apparently! If it’s garbage, then that should be put out there as I have heard of people using this stuff more than once on glue-in bolts.

I have seen SET-XP promoted on the forums as a good glue and that it is stronger/better-er than redhead A7 because it is actually an epoxy. It also has a much longer gel time, which is why I tried it. I had used one tube, and I found it to be runny and annoying to work with, tended to want to escape the hole. It is also this neon aquamarine color which stands out more than I like.

I capped the tube and used some more a couple months later and towards the last couple of bolts had the hardener part of the tube partially clog. I remedied the problem by just squeezing the crap out of the trigger, but super annoying. Haven't had that problem with a7.

Salamanizer Ski wrote: Looking through the database I was curious that I didn’t find anything regarding Simpson strong-tie products as they’re relatively cheap and available at any Home Depot.

Specifically the SET-XP, AT-XP, and SET 3G products. Just wondering how they stack up against the more popular products used for anchoring stainless rod bolts of varying types. I need anchoring adhesives for dummies apparently! If it’s garbage, then that should be put out there as I have heard of people using this stuff more than once on glue-in bolts.

Set XP might be cheap but the reaction times are certainly sub standard when compared to any of the other adhesives commonly used by climbers. This also assumes we are discussing dry holes and no moisture (or water) is present, in which case the reaction time is further increased.

Not an appealing green colour (yes Hilti RE500 is red but that fades whereas the XP used in my area has remained the same colour) and when you need an adhesive to be effectively cured to the point that anchors can be loaded the next day, Simpson XP is not the best choice.

E.g. 24 hours for a full cure at 21deg C when practically everything else (Hilti, Gebofix etc) has fully cured in 12 hours or less.

The load resistance performance from a few tests I did was n't particularly impressive either so personally would n't recommend it.

Matthew Jaggers wrote: I was talking with a buddy last night about the longevity of using Eterna bolts inland, in Ky, and the question arose: Are glues essentially a 'plastic' once they have cured? We briefly debated if the titanium or the glue would fail first. My guess was that the bolt would wear down from carabiner damage faster than it rusting, or the glue deteriorating. But, I dont know enough about any of it to make an educated guess.

Any educated guesses?
Are there any commercially backed statements on how long glues will last? 100 years? 1000 years?

Route traffic is probably the determining factor in the life of a Kalymnian sport route   

There are various documents (Hilti in particular) substantiating the estimation of a 50 year adhesive life but climbers have only used glue-in style fixings for a few decades. The difficulty in extracting an old glue-in and the extent of longterm experience available points towards choosing adhesives carefully. In other words opting to use adhesives that have had a decent length of climber use and can therefore provide a degree of assurance they won't crap out unexpectedly early. 

Climbers are 'adapting' civil construction adhesives for use in a recreational sport so while European Technical Association certification is very relevant (it covers adhesives used for applications where anchor failure could result in a fatality) no fastening company I'm aware of has formally endorsed their products for rock climbing use. Shop floor advice is a different thing of course.

I pulled 26 year old glue-ins to failure late last year and the adhesive performed no problem. francishaden.wordpress.com/…

A few years earlier I pulled some 20+ year old glue-in bolts (old DMM Eco) because they were 'clickies' and they failed at 30kN (bolt pulled out through the adhesive).

Possibly Kentucky not Kalymnos  

The new version of ETA 17/0979 is now 100 year design life and some resins are now certified to this (it takes time to do the testing). The longest certified lifespan is Fischer FIS EM Plus at 120 years.

However outdoors in rock things may be different!

null any experience with the Sitka AnchorFix -3001 or similar products? It’s the locally available affordable option, and it’s working times are exponentially longer than what most of you are describing. Pic is wonky, tried to take a panorama that covered all the info.

Also unrelated question: will be bolting a iron stair about 20 meters high with 5/8” rebar staples. So that’s 40 ish rungs, 80 holes. We’re thinking of using a construction adhesive for these, mostly for cost. Since they aren’t anchors,  and will only ever hold one person static loads, does anyone see any issues with using a construction adhesive such as PL Ultra or similar? It’s roughly 1/4 the cost of epoxy, less hassle, is rated for both stone and metal, and is easy to use. Thoughts?

Salamanizer Ski wrote: Looking through the database I was curious that I didn’t find anything regarding Simpson strong-tie products as they’re relatively cheap and available at any Home Depot. 

Specifically the SET-XP, AT-XP, and SET 3G products. Just wondering how they stack up against the more popular products used for anchoring stainless rod bolts of varying types. I need anchoring adhesives for dummies apparently! If it’s garbage, then that should be put out there as I have heard of people using this stuff more than once on glue-in bolts.

Simpson's blog has an article comparing SET-3G to SET-XP:

https://seblog.strongtie.com/2020/10/reasons-to-specify-set-3g-adhesive-for-anchorage-in-concrete-construction/