Pull ups vs grade climbed?

A local climbing coach told me the strongest correlation between grade and a measurable exercise is one arm hangs/pull ups for whatever that is worth. 

Dane B wrote: A local climbing coach told me the strongest correlation between grade and a measurable exercise is one arm hangs/pull ups for whatever that is worth. 

I would completely support this. The wheat and chaff get separated quickly above roughly 13b for those without this kind of strength

The original question is a problem because of the nature of the hold being used. For some, doing pullups on a bar is much easier than pullups on a first pad edge. For others there's no difference. Since harder routes and boulders feature bad holds, the ability to repeatedly pull on bad holds is going to be key to succeeding on these routes. Since hard routes also feature holds relatively far apart, training pullups with holds side by side is of limited value in the long term. To increase the resistance to a productive level, adding weight is useful and when that becomes unproductive, switching to offset hangs or one arm hangs is the next logical step.

TL;DR Independent individual arm and finger strength and power is the ultimate priority in training. Always try to get there.

You have to be careful in evaluating the numbers of a certain type of pretty-good climber (generally older, but also some younger ones who admire a certain oldster ethic) that claims not to be able to do any pull-ups (or maybe 1 or 2).   They may be making a philosophical statement that they don't do pull-ups (or anything else that may resemble exercise) and they don't really know if they could or how many (and it would be oh-so-beneath-them to try).  But if you put 'em on a bar or hangboard and they really had to (or wanted to), they could do a fair number.
   
I'm not claiming that pullups are good training for climbing or there is a strong correlation between pullups and climbing level (except at extremes:  e.g., for elite sport climbers:  I'd be very skeptical of claims that most cannot do a bunch of pull-ups if they want to, even though they probably don't want to.  And if you can do a bunch of pullups, you may be a sucky climber in a lot of ways, but if you have any climbing experience, there's a limit to your suckiness, at least on certain types of routes that are amenable to brute force).

Dane B wrote: A local climbing coach told me the strongest correlation between grade and a measurable exercise is one arm hangs/pull ups for whatever that is worth. 

I would agree with that— but, I don’t think it is a measurable attribute for say, a climber who can climb 5.9 VS a climber tho can climb 5.12. The majority of 5.12 climbers can’t do 1-arm pull-ups, no more than 5.9 climbers can. 

So if you were to graph grade vs one-arm pull-up, it would be a flat line near zero as the climbing grade increases from 5.6 to 5.12, and then you would start seeing a relatively steep increase in percentage of climbers who can do 1-arm pull-ups. But my prediction is that you wouldn’t necessarily see a strong correlation between a number of 1-arm pull-ups and the grade beyond that. 
And similarly, if you were to tell a 5.9 (or 5.10, or 5.11) climber how to get to 5.12, you wouldn’t tell them that they need to work on their pull-ups, to get there. 

A variety of assessments (Lattice, Power Company, individual coaches, etc) look at the number of body weight pull-ups and max weight pull-ups as part of the assessment. But they put it in the overall bigger picture. If you happen to be that rare person who climbs 5.12 but can only do a couple pull-ups, they will tell you to do pullups as part of your training. If you are about average for the grade, they wouldn’t necessarily put emphasis on just plain pull-ups. 
Two friends of mine did the Lattice custom plans this winter. They climb similar grades, but one is male, one is female. The female can’t do as many pull-ups as the guy. But compared to other women climbing the same grades, she was above average. Her plan had very few pull-ups in it. The guy could do more pull-ups than she could, but that number was below average for guys at that grade. He had more of weighted pull-ups in his plan. 

I can do 20 pullups. And one armed lock offs. But I am V Zero hero. Sorry to say.  V1. Pullups are easy. Boulder problems are not. I guarantee the difference is how many single digit or two finger digit pullups can you do would be the marker for success.
 

I can do 2 (maybe 3 @ project weight).....with each arm. That said, my pull strength hasn't increased by leaps & bounds from when I was in the first year of climbing (projecting 5.12-) to now (projecting 5.14-). The real difference is I can now do that on a single pad(ish) edge.

A counter is jstar, who remarked (after multiple 5.15a sends) that he could never do 1 arm pull ups as effortless as I can. I'm not so sure about now, and he has 2 5.15b under his belt.

reboot wrote: The real difference is I can now do that on a single pad(ish) edge.

And that's a very big difference indeed!   

Lena chita wrote:

I would agree with that— but, I don’t think it is a measurable attribute for say, a climber who can climb 5.9 VS a climber tho can climb 5.12. The majority of 5.12 climbers can’t do 1-arm pull-ups, no more than 5.9 climbers can. 

So if you were to graph grade vs one-arm pull-up, it would be a flat line near zero as the climbing grade increases from 5.6 to 5.12, and then you would start seeing a relatively steep increase in percentage of climbers who can do 1-arm pull-ups. But my prediction is that you wouldn’t necessarily see a strong correlation between a number of 1-arm pull-ups and the grade beyond that. 
And similarly, if you were to tell a 5.9 (or 5.10, or 5.11) climber how to get to 5.12, you wouldn’t tell them that they need to work on their pull-ups, to get there. 

A variety of assessments (Lattice, Power Company, individual coaches, etc) look at the number of body weight pull-ups and max weight pull-ups as part of the assessment. But they put it in the overall bigger picture. If you happen to be that rare person who climbs 5.12 but can only do a couple pull-ups, they will tell you to do pullups as part of your training. If you are about average for the grade, they wouldn’t necessarily put emphasis on just plain pull-ups. 
Two friends of mine did the Lattice custom plans this winter. They climb similar grades, but one is male, one is female. The female can’t do as many pull-ups as the guy. But compared to other women climbing the same grades, she was above average. Her plan had very few pull-ups in it. The guy could do more pull-ups than she could, but that number was below average for guys at that grade. He had more of weighted pull-ups in his plan. 

And I would guess the biggest value from these tests is in comparing an individual’s max weighted pull to pull-up number, not comparing them to other people’s results.

I'd be more interested in the correlation between pullups and grades for ice climbing.

Ya, but how many beer can you drink and what's the hardest you've ever climbed hungover?

I haven't bothered to do pull ups since the 1980s.  I also used to train on a Bachar ladder which was great for developing lock off strength & technique.  What I found was climbing is the best training for climbing.  Finger strength is key & there is no quick way to develop it.  Some people are probably born with more finger strength.  It takes years to develop stronger finger tendons.  The larger pulling muscles in the arms can be developed much quicker.  I used to do a lot of buildering traverses on small holds.  

Simply training with pull ups ignores the subtleties of movement on the rock.  Thinking that what you need to climb harder is simply more strength often leads to defeat.  

When Katie Brown was very early in her climbing career, young teenager, she was quoted in a video saying she couldn’t even do one full pullup but was climbing 5.13.  The maximum number of pullups I could ever do did not correspond to when I have climbed my hardest grade.

10 pull-ups and get yeeted off 5.4s. Did I win?

Wayne Curr wrote: Ya, but how many beer can you drink and what's the hardest you've ever climbed hungover?

This is clearly a flawed metric. Not all beers are created equal, and you've completely left out the possibility of not being hungover because you are still drunk.

reboot wrote: I can do 2 (maybe 3 @ project weight).....with each arm. That said, my pull strength hasn't increased by leaps & bounds from when I was in the first year of climbing (projecting 5.12-) to now (projecting 5.14-). The real difference is I can now do that on a single pad(ish) edge.

A counter is jstar, who remarked (after multiple 5.15a sends) that he could never do 1 arm pull ups as effortless as I can. I'm not so sure about now, and he has 2 5.15b under his belt.

lol, that's like saying, "I read one book a week when I was in 5th grade, and still only read one book a week.  The only difference is that I've moved up to Dostoyevsky these days." It does show that finger/forearm strength has more direct benefits to climbing than pullups. I also know plenty of climbers projecting >.14- who are nowhere near doing single-pad one-arms.

Jens K. wrote: He could do 12 pull-ups. Second hand Info from friends, the late Alex Lowe could do 100 pull-ups & never climbed rock at my level.

You may be underestimating Alex Lowe's rock climbing level. I don't know his hardest sport redpoint, but he flashed Supercrack at the Gunks and free soloed the Naked Edge. Glancing at your ascents list, I'd say that this is definitely "above your level."  If not, apologies.

53 years old, 6'2" climbing weight is about 200, can do 8 good hanging pullups, and two more with kips. I have never been able to climb harder than 5.11 b/c. But I mostly climb trad, so I am never pushing my absolute grades. 

Robert Hernandez wrote:

What type? Did the hangover have to fully kick in or could I still be quasi drunk?

I've prob done my hardest runout slab climbs while being somewhere between these two... where you have enough drunkenness left to be bold but enough of the approaching hangover to not care about living... definitely the sweet spot. 

Buck Rio wrote: 53 years old, 6'2" climbing weight is about 200, can do 8 good hanging pullups, and two more with kips. I have never been able to climb harder than 5.11 b/c. But I mostly climb trad, so I am never pushing my absolute grades. 

Buck, you need to lose 50 pounds haha

I do front lever pull ups but climb V4

Training is a waste of time haha