Locking quickdraws? Back clipping

Hi everyone,
I have been climbing on and off for years and now worked my way up to leading, mostly sport and some mix sport/trad.  I have a concern about back-clipping.  Other than not doing it, would a locking carabiner such as the Black Diamond Magantron (rope side) with a wire gate (rock side) be sufficient to prevent a back clip accident? Does anyone make such a package? 
Thank you,
Ben 

it would prevent it,  but now you have to mess with a locker every time you want to clip the rope? I guess when you’re fumbling with the locker you have some extra time to figure out if you’re clipping the right way. 

Well, thats an expensive and heavy solution to a manageable problem, but yes it would likely prevent an unclipping accident.

The magnetron would be a good choice given the less likelyhood that it would abrase the rope relative to a normal locker, though it would probably be impossible to clip one handed. You would also get more drag from your back clips on your rope.

Its probably just easier to learn how to clip correctly.

No troll here, just looking for some solid advise. Thank you to all that responded. 

I have one of these that I use for critical or funky situations where I'm worried about accidental unclipping. 
​https://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/locking-carabiners/pure-slider.html​​​

Oh. Yes, don't back clip.

If you are worried about your gear somehow unclipping from a carabiner - like you're about to launch off into the crux and need to make sure the gear below is not going to do some weird once in a million thing, using a locking biner rather than a regular carabiner isn't totally weird. I recall the accident on Mickey Mouse Wall in Eldo where a carabiner may have unclipped itself because of gate flutter.

But this would be a truly unique situation when just sport climbing, I would assume. Many different things would have to go sensationally wrong.

Brandon R wrote: I have one of these that I use for critical or funky situations where I'm worried about accidental unclipping.
https://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/locking-carabiners/pure-slider.html

This (or some other lightweight locker).

As others have stated, the best solution to your problem is, for the most part, to never backclip. That said, there are certainly circumstances where a locker on one (or both) ends of your draw is worthwhile. Two examples that occur fairly frequently for me where I include a locker are the following (one a trad scenario and one in a sport scenario).

(1) I am about to cast off on a runout where I know that this is the last piece (bolt or gear) that I will get for quite a while, and hence a fall would not only be high consequence, but the fall itself is likely to generate a lot of flutter with the rope and draw that could in principle cause unclipping of the rope from the draw.
(2) when I am sport climbing and there is a clip circumstance where I am worried about an awkward or weird fall angle and there is a high consequence for the rope unclipping, then I will put on a locker for good measure.

Generally speaking, it never hurts to add a locker, but you just can't practically do it all the time. The other option that some of my old-timer partners swear by is clipping and then flipping the biner so that it is 'upside down'. I probably would have thought the 'flipping' practice was crusty old guy overkill, but for the fact that the guy who suggested it to me has 40+ years of experience, including 1000s of FA's (i.e., he has way more mileage and experience than I will ever), and he assures me that he has watched his draw become unclipped from the rope via rope flutter many, many times. To be honest, its happened to me too (weird rope unclipping events), but not so often that I thought it was a thing before my buddy assured me it wasn't just my shitty rope management that caused the problem. Just a thought in case you want a happy medium between carrying a locker on every draw and doing nothing.

Some sport climbers carry an occasional locking biner quickdraw on certain routes where a particular clip is going to be subject to weird pulls and/or where failure of that particular protection point would be catastrophic. It can add to your peace of mind, but it can also add extra fuss that is most often unnecessary.

Regardless, of all the ways to create a locking quickdraw, a Magnetron seems like a cumbersome and difficult choice to me.  I think the opening mechanism on those would be too fiddly to perform one-handed while hanging in an awkward spot, for example.  Actually, it would probably be very difficult in most situations to loop the rope through a hanging Magnetron while keeping the gate open after pinching the opening mechanism.  

If you really want to, there are a bunch of auto-lock mechanisms that are easier to operate one handed (e.g. Edelrid), but I've used one of those Grivel biners with the two wire gates.  It's just doable to push the outward-facing wiregate open with the rope that you've brought up to clip or even sort of split the two wiregates open with a stab of the thumb, and then it slips into the basket past the inward-facing wiregate easily.  The rope is then effectively running through a locking biner.  I have only one draw set up this way, and in reality I've only felt the desire to carry and place it on maybe two routes in the last five years.  For trad climbing, you're likely carrying a few lockers anyway, so you could in theory build a runner with a locker.

Finally, keep in mind that even a quickdraw with locking biners could receive some weird twisting if back clipped and might make for a wonky fall.  Even if your rope-end biner was a locker, your bolt-end biner could get twisted or flipped relative to the hanger, too.  I wouldn't rely on a particular biner set up to prevent a back clipping accident.  For that, you should just rely on clipping correctly.  Every time.

Man, I'm gonna feel dumb if I'm being trolled right now.  But whatever, something to do at home at night...

Edit:  Ben says he's a real live person looking for helpful advice.  In that case, happy climbing...

... and one other thought:  on sport climbs, do you occasionally (as I do) carry a set of locking-biner runners to put on the anchor for the rest of your posse to TR through (thus saving wear on your "real" quickdraws and adding a measure of insurance to the clips on your anchor)?  If so, you'll already be carrying a locking biner quickdraw if you felt the need to place one mid-route.

Ben Burgin wrote: No troll here, just looking for some solid advise. Thank you to all that responded. 

Locking biner will greately decrease the chance of rope unclipping in backclip scenario, but it is not practical in most cases, because it is heavier, harder to clip, and you will have to fumble with the locking mechanism. 

There are some situations where a locking biner MIGHT be ok to alleviate your fear of unclipping the rope. E.g. if you are working a route and repeatedly falling at a crux, that locking biner might be worth it, while you are working the move. It is not something that most people will bother with. 

Ultimately, don’t over-engineer complicated solution to a simple problem. Just learn to not backclip. It is easy, and just takes practice. 

As stated above, careful with lockers on QD’s... nothing worse than going to clip a bolt and you need to unscrew the locker just a tad because it tightened while you were climbing. Just don’t back clip. Make sure the rope is always falling down from the QD like a waterfall.. that’s how it was explained to me years ago..

Lead climb enough and your eyes will kinda train themselves to look for it. It just looks wrong. Your belayer should be on the look out for back clipping!!!!

I’d just like to say there’s some good stuff here before those buried in the weeds gear guys roll in and debate the intricacies of their gear breaking rigs and the by laws of quantum physics.

I love those edelrid slide biners, I could not think of a better one for this application. Edelrid makes some seriously cool biners, in general.

The best explanation I was given to keep from back clipping is to imagine the rope as a stream of piss. Calvin and Hobbes style. If you peed through the carabiner from your position it would go up, through the carabiner, and then to the wall and down.  If it looks like your pee is going to the wall and then up through the carabiner then you're back clipped.

Cheers

I’ve got two locking carabiner quickdraws I made/use for setting up top ropes if someone is with me who doesn’t lead.  Would they prevent backclipping if used on bolts going up rather than the anchor?  Yes, if locked.  Would it be a pain in the ass?  Absolutely.

Ben, I knew a guy that used lockers for every goddamned clip and I am here to say, please, for the love of all that is holy, do not do this ever. Backclipping is not a huge deal, just add another draw if you do it or fix it. It's as simple as that.

I call a locker- locker draw a Jesus Draw. Best used where you never ever could survive a unclip. Like the 3rd bolt, where your stomach or feet will be pushing and turning the draw over.

And I use a Megaton for my belay device, but I find it doesn’t work to well for other uses, it’s hard to pinch it when clipped to a bolt. 

Check out the Grivel Twin Gate carabiner.  Not sure how heavy it is, but it looks like it offers 'some' protection against unclipping and it looks like you can manipulate it with one hand to clip.  Never used one, but they've been out for a while.

Guy Keesee wrote:

And I use a Megaton for my belay device

Sounds heavy.

The grivel twin-gate plume can be clipped with one hand and is light for a locker. Works well for a locker draw

Sometimes I put a locker on the rope end of an alpine draw  and use it for the first clip, on routes with a really high first bolt. I wouldn’t want to screw around with a locker at every clip but in certain circumstances makes sense.