What percentage of a rope's cost is material?

The price of nylon has been dropping even before COVID. The price of benzine has plummeted since January. I don't think the material costs have ever been lower.

1. Uh, unless I’m missing something, almost none of it? Like the cost of a carabiner, I’m pretty sure the machinery to design, make, and test gear is what you’re paying for. Are you worried Beal is ripping you off or something? OR, is there a nylon anti-trust conspiracy that I should be worried about!?

Make your own and find out!

I'm not worried about anything; are you?
I've noticed the price of ropes go up and down over the years and the machinery to make them really hasn't changed much if any since the invention of the kernmantle rope. The only major change happened when they switched from braided cores to twisted cores to make them stretch more, but that was, what, over 40 years ago? Testing ropes has been standardized a long time ago, too. Maybe what you're missing is that ropes aren't akin to rare, artisanal cheeses. 

I'd expect the drop in oil prices to filter through in a year or so considering the lead times in the yarn manufacture and order chain. I'd also expect the massive drop in sales to filter through much sooner!

With most high-quality textiles the pure cost of production is about 1/10th of sales price. I would expect it to be the same with ropes,  maybe marginally higher. Let's say 15 per cent. 

Victor Machtel wrote: With most high-quality textiles the pure cost of production is about 1/10th of sales price. I would expect it to be the same with ropes,  maybe marginally higher. Let's say 15 per cent. 

Probably in that region. The problem with guessing the future price depends if there is a shortage of butadien as the raw stock as it's a by-product of refining oil and the oil prices are rock bottom because the refiners aren't buying it. On the other hand the demand for nylon has collapsed so it's anyone's guess!

If you want to go all the way back to starting materials i.e. petroleum, consider that a typical rope weighs about 9 pounds. That's very roughly equivalent to 1.5 gallons of crude oil. At current prices, that's less than $2. Everything above this is "value added" in the multitude steps of chemical processing, fiber-making, rope braiding, marketing, distribution, and sale.

So what, you say? It's just something I keep in mind when someone points out (as has happened in the past) that rising oil prices threaten to significantly raise the price we pay for climbing ropes.

Well that's one way to look at it. Except you need 84 times as much oil to produce the butadien as far as I can see. But of course you sell other bits of the oil as well.

Engineered products made from common feedstocks: most climbing gear.  Yeah, material price has almost no effect on sales price.  99% of that price is marketing, manufacturing, and supply chain logistics.  Maybe a little to do with competitive products to put downward pressure on the price. 

This isn't a space shuttle, nuclear reactor, or li ion batteries. 

Well sometimes! I make bolts and the raw material conversion varies but it's mostly a lot more than 1%. 10% would be good.

Jim, are you making bolts on a Open Rod Die Header & Automatic Threader or are you machining a bolt on a lathe & mill?
The cost of making a bolt with semi automated machines is almost nothing.

Jim Titt wrote: Well sometimes! I make bolts and the raw material conversion varies but it's mostly a lot more than 1%. 10% would be good.

Unless you're mass manufacturing for public consumption, that's not really a direct comparison.   On a side note, that's a pretty awesome hobby - would love to get into it sometime if I could eat the startup costs or find access to equipment. 

Equipment is everywhere & easy to find. The cost can add up. The learning curve is the big problem.

Lol doesn't Jim run team tough?  Not really what I would call a hobby

I imagine the cost of the materials is very small compared with labor, machine overhead, uiaa certification (as well as other certs) engineers to make a rope stretch a targeted amount ect.
However an engineer friend of mine did tell me that if a material goes up in price (or you use a more expensive part) that cost is multiplied like 8 times before it actually gets to the consumer, so if a rope is $200 and the nylon costs $10 but drops to $8 the climber might see a savings of $16.

But larger supply/demand things related to so much climbing being closed right now and so many stores being closed will effect price before oil prices trickle down.

Mark Frumkin wrote: Jim, are you making bolts on a Open Rod Die Header & Automatic Threader or are you machining a bolt on a lathe & mill?
The cost of making a bolt with semi automated machines is almost nothing.

Bolts for climbers!

Cost of materials in any enterprise is usually not significant,  design, engineering, financing, labor, warehousing, transportation, and marketing are significant percentages.

Just warehousing is significant. The cost of real estate is high.  If you manufactured say 1000 ropes they would take of a certain amount of square footage over a certain amount of time while you moved them into the market place.  There they sit in stores or other warehouses costing other people money until they move into someones final home or storage unit which costs them.  Space, while seemingly infinite, actually is quite expensive here in the USA.

I've always assumed 2 big reasons why climbing equipment remains relatively expensive:
1. This stuff is all super low volume, in the grand scheme
2. Manufacturers need to maintain large product liability insurance policies

Spaggett, Gotcha! wrote:

Unless you're mass manufacturing for public consumption, that's not really a direct comparison.   On a side note, that's a pretty awesome hobby - would love to get into it sometime if I could eat the startup costs or find access to equipment. 

Well the tax man doesn't think it's a hobby! I get through a fucking lot of stainless steel, my bill is well in 5 figures every year. Most of my machinery is custom built or modified from existing plant, all you need is the ideas.

Former Climber wrote: Iirc Team Tough is the North American importer, not sure Jim’s level of involvement beyond supplier.

Uh... I'll leave this here: http://www.bolt-products.com/AboutBoltProducts.htm

Former Climber wrote: Iirc Team Tough is the North American importer, not sure Jim’s level of involvement beyond supplier.

Team Tough is my importer for N America, I have another for Asia and the rest I service direct.