Seeking advice.. High Sierra snow travel

I’m looking to get into some early season peak bagging and climbing approaching in the high Sierra, the east side mostly. I’ve never skied, but I’m hoping to learn soon. I’m pretty tight on money as well haha. Anyway, I was wondering if skiis or snowshoes would be best. Is it silly to get snowshoes? Are skiis more useful? Or are snowshoes more practical for the terrain? Thanks for any help!

If you have never skied, it is suicide to go into the back country. 

AT ski setup is the way to go, don't forget skins. It's one of the things I enjoy most after climbing. Avy I & II are something you should definitely take, especially if you'll be in the Rockies, or any place that's not maritime. Snowshoes are crap IMO, it's akward to walk with them, they don't climb nearly as well as skins, plus you can't ski down!

Snowshoes are slow (that's why they're called slowshoes), but the learning curve is not as long and the upfront investment is much smaller than skis. Good skiers can cover lots of ground in a hurry, but it's a lot easier to get hurt, and getting good on skis usually entails at least a season or two at ski resorts. I use snowshoes and microspikes when the snow coverage is inconsistent, and metal-edged touring skis and skins when I know I'll have enough snow to keep the skis on for a good distance.

If you snow shoe enough you'll end up buying an AT set-up.

Snow shoes are best when you don't need them, i.e., when the snow is already hard and crusty enough to hike in anyway. Breaking trail with them is better than doing it without, but it still sucks. Or, I should say, it's a great workout, so that when conditions are better you'll smoke your non-snowshoe-ing friends and have more fun. If you're going to go that route, buy a pair with heel risers. They make a ton of difference.

Skinning uphill is very efficient, even with a pack. It's definitely the classy way to go. But learn how to ski at a resort before venturing into the backcountry.

Also, I don't know how much longer you'll actually need snowshoes or skis for in the Eastern Sierras. Last time I was at Whitney was just before the lockdown began and skiers were carrying their gear all the way to Lower Boyscout at about 10k feet before strapping up. It's snowed a bit since then, so I don't know. It's all dependent on conditions and the trail you're on.

Hey Cameron,

I agree with Mark Felber's points above, and the safe part about snow shoeing is especially pertinent now, when you don't want to get hurt in the backcountry and require SAR, and others to have to get involved.  I love the skiing in, but since the pressure not to do hazardous stuff came out, I immediately thought of digging out the snow shoes as a compromise.  You'd have to try pretty hard to hurt yourself snow shoeing.  Or you could ski into a very safe area like the Rock Creek/Little Lakes Valley south of Mammoth.  There is a lot of fun ski-touring to do on your way to some nice peaks.

I wanted to start skiing so I could access cool stuff in the High Sierra. So I moved to Tahoe 4 years ago...a couple hundred ski days and many thousands of dollars later, I can now do winter approaches ever so slightly faster than a fit snowshoer. 

Cameron Jacobs wrote: I’m looking to get into some early season peak bagging and climbing approaching in the high Sierra, the east side mostly. I’ve never skied, but I’m hoping to learn soon. I’m pretty tight on money as well haha. Anyway, I was wondering if skiis or snowshoes would be best. Is it silly to get snowshoes? Are skiis more useful? Or are snowshoes more practical for the terrain? Thanks for any help!

Hopefully you are NOT talking about this season. The east side is really trying to keep people from visiting. Signs at most trail heads asking people to not peak bag, climb, backcounty ski, etc. They mostly seem worried about having to perform rescues at this time. Also, the snow is melting fast. I think by the end of May this year, no floatation will be needed.

But, in the future you should definitely ski. Get a ski pass, learn how to go down hill. Then if you are fit, you will quickly learn how to go up hill. Good luck!

Alyssa K wrote: I wanted to start skiing so I could access cool stuff in the High Sierra. So I moved to Tahoe 4 years ago...a couple hundred ski days and many thousands of dollars later, I can now do winter approaches ever so slightly faster than a fit snowshoer. 

Hopefully you can get back to your car faster than a fit snowshoer.

Please don't come here and teach yourself to be a mountaineer at this time

Snow shoes can be dangerous on steep frozen terrain, especially without experience.  Even highly skilled rock climbers have almost killed themselves:

https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/man-rescued-after-tallac-fall/

And as mentioned in Scott's post above, now is NOT the time to learn these skills on the eastside.

Very likely in two weeks this disastrous and unnecessary quarantine will be over and then the "locals" will be begging you to come and spend your money on some snowshoes and to buy over-priced bad food. But they'll be shit out of luck because no one will have a job or money to spend on what is ultimately a luxury sport.

Choose how you want to do it though.
The downside of going over there is that you'll probably get ticketed for parking anywhere near one of the routes into the mountains.
The upside is that you get to snowshoe.

That's not much of an upside.

Do some resort skiing.

Now is not the time to learn these skills. We’ve had unseasonably high temps and just yesterday Inyo SAR, CalFire, Inyo Sheriff coordinated a very large avalanche rescue of two obviously new backcountry skiers whose goals were the same as yours. The girl might have a broken back. There’s more than just knowing how to ski, snowshoe, or climb a mountain. Be smart and don’t go pushing yourself right now. Not only is it completely insane and puts yourself at risk, you are potentially putting the rescuers at risk. Go hiking in your backyard and at a later date, choose to learn these skills by a guide. Not by yourself. You posting these questions clearly points out how green you are and just how dangerous you traveling into the mountains right now would be. Learn from an expert, not an Internet forum.

Camron.... don’t go visit the eastern Sierra- nobody wants you there right now.... give it 2 weeks.

Learn how to Ski at a resort, one needs to be quite  skilled so you don’t hit a tree or fly off a cliff! And remember this it’s much more difficult with a heavy pack full of Rockclimbing gear. 

I find that traveling at night, when everything is frozen is a good way to go. I use regular crampons and a long Ice Ax- way long, Scottish walking stick. I have used this strategy many times for springtime adventures.

Mt. Baldy, just opened up, go get some Skis and try it out. 

Cameron Jacobs wrote: I’m looking to get into some early season peak bagging and climbing approaching in the high Sierra, the east side mostly. I’ve never skied, but I’m hoping to learn soon. I’m pretty tight on money as well haha. Anyway, I was wondering if skiis or snowshoes would be best. Is it silly to get snowshoes? Are skiis more useful? Or are snowshoes more practical for the terrain? Thanks for any help!

I've done loads of skiing and climbing. Maybe blasphemous to say here but given good powder I prefer skiing.

As mentioned above don't get yourself hurt at this time.

Learn enough about avalanches (read an easy book like this amazon.com/Allen-Mikes-Aval…;keywords=avalanche+book&qid=1588269949&sr=8-2 ) to know when there's almost no danger before heading into the backcountry at all. i.e. go out when you know it's very unlikely to slide. When you get to the point you may want to go out and the conditions are more iffy (fresh snow, slope angles that may slide, etc.) then take an avy course.

Snowshoes have almost no learning curve. Just walk with your legs wide. Cheap. No specialized boots needed. Okay for flats or slight uphills where otherwise you'd be post holing (sinking in to your knees or so). Inefficient. Slow. Boring. But easy and cheap.

Skis are superior in almost all ways. Much more efficient. Much more fun. But more expensive. More types to learn about and get proficient on. Much greater learning curve. 

• I would start off with wide nordic touring skis with fishscales. (cross country skis designed for the backcountry, wide for soft snow, fishscales on the bases so you don't have to deal with skins or wax to go uphill, fishscales aren't as efficient but easiest) . Use for flats and slight uphill/downhill. Could get used to them in a day or two.
• Then you could explore learn about AT setups or Telemark setups for much more uphill / downhill capabilties. As mentioned above spend a season at a resort learining how to make turns and control your descents.

Add: to keep costs down I'd just go on craigslist / facebook marketplace / geartrade.com etc. and find a cheap XC setup to get started.

Glowering wrote:

I've done loads of skiing and climbing. Maybe blasphemous to say here but given good powder I prefer skiing.

As mentioned above don't get yourself hurt at this time.

Learn enough about avalanches (read an easy book like this amazon.com/Allen-Mikes-Aval…;keywords=avalanche+book&qid=1588269949&sr=8-2 ) to know when there's almost no danger before heading into the backcountry at all. i.e. go out when you know it's very unlikely to slide. When you get to the point you may want to go out and the conditions are more iffy (fresh snow, slope angles that may slide, etc.) then take an avy course.

Snowshoes have almost no learning curve. Just walk with your legs wide. Cheap. No specialized boots needed. Okay for flats or slight uphills where otherwise you'd be post holing (sinking in to your knees or so). Inefficient. Slow. Boring. But easy and cheap.

Skis are superior in almost all ways. Much more efficient. Much more fun. But more expensive. More types to learn about and get proficient on. Much greater learning curve. 

• I would start off with wide nordic touring skis with fishscales. (cross country skis designed for the backcountry, wide for soft snow, fishscales on the bases so you don't have to deal with skins or wax to go uphill, fishscales aren't as efficient but easiest) . Use for flats and slight uphill/downhill. Could get used to them in a day or two.
• Then you could explore learn about AT setups or Telemark setups for much more uphill / downhill capabilties. As mentioned above spend a season at a resort learining how to make turns and control your descents.

Add: to keep costs down I'd just go on craigslist / facebook marketplace / geartrade.com etc. and find a cheap XC setup to get started.

Thanks man! Yeah I was mostly inquiring about the process of learning, and potentially getting snowshoes for some snowy approaches this season, or holding off as it’s already melting here, and go through the ski learning process next winter to apply later on :)

I didn't even mention snowboarding, another option. Some people get split boards, which basically turns a snowboard into two short skis for approaches/uphill and clips together for riding downhill. Not as efficient as skiing, but if you're a board sport enthusiast (skateboarder, surfer) and you really prefer the sideways stance it's something to look into.

I feel the same way about skiing/riding as climbing. For skiing I like alpine gear the best (I feel I'm capable of the most on it) but I also enjoy snowboarding and telemark. They are all fun and have their pros and cons for different situations. But of course you probably want to focus on one at least in the beginning to get proficient on it. With climbing I like long trad climbs the best, but I also enjoy sport, bouldering, and aid/walls.  There's a lot of fun to be had.

Parks seem to be moving towards a re-opening, in part because businesses rely on summer tourists to get through. Anyone have any word on conditions? Is the lower gate to Whitney open or closed?

If you are peak bagging the snow will be bulletproof in the pre-dawn and until mid morning depending on sun exposure ie East Facing stuff will get soft sooner in the morning than the west facing stuff etc. You can easily walk on it and in fact may need crampons when it gets steep (not the toy kind). Knowing the sun exposure of your route and descent and current pack conditions is critical information. Arrive early when its bulletproof and you could be screwed if you don't have an axe and crampons or if you arrive after its softened in the sun for many hours it could slide and you die.

So you don't need snowshoes for the approach if you are actually appropriately forming a plan to summit (dawn or pre-dawn start depending on scale of objective).

Where it gets interesting is when it gets soft on the way down and back to the car and then snowshoes can be just fine for a newbie rather than post-holing or learning to manage skiis with a pack.

Regardless, now is not the time for such beginner schenanigans. See the rescue vid of the snow slides nearly killing guys on San Jacinto etc.

Get plenty of snow and previous peak bagging experience in the high sierra under more controlled conditions rather than early spring until you know more, have sound avy knowledge and go with a partner with experience too.

hillbilly.... you give good advice.

I learned the “hike at night” trick from a old peak bagger back in the 70’s.

Did you ever live in Mammoth??