Advice on beginning a trad rack?

Want to start building a rack but since I don’t have anything yet the amount of options is a little overwhelming. I’ve heard for my area (UT) people recommend doubles .3-3 and some nuts. Any advice welcome, thanks!

Start with a set of hexes and wired stoppers.

single set .3-3 with a set of nuts will get you a lot of mileage. climb with a partner who also has a single rack = double rack!

taking a n00b without a rack? climb very easy stuff. that's advice for both climbing with a single rack and climbing with a n00b

From another thread:

1. Doubles 0.4-3
2. Single 0.2, 0.3, #4 (could always get more small sizes)
3. Set of regular nuts sizes 4-11 (anything DMM is a good call)
4. Offset nuts are pretty tight for Colorado granite and Eldo, but not too helpful in Utah sandstone (again, get the DMMs)
5. A crapload of non locking carabiners you'll actually want to clip for the alpines (bigger, beefier ones), and light for the racking carabiners. You'll need 1 for each cam and 2 for each alpine draw. 
6. A half-a-crapload of locking carabiners
7. 10-12 60cm dyneema slings - alpine draws
8. 1-2 120cm slings
9. I like having 1 240cm sling
10. A nut tool
11. Probably more stuff I'm forgetting

Personally, I don't see the need for hexes.

I agree with the hexes, they are great and cheap to leave behind when you need to bail.   Don't get drawn in to buying cheap cams, you will only end up buying better later on and will have waisted that money.  You will be happy with Wild Country, Metolius, BD.  As far as nuts go I really like off set nuts, I never use regular nuts and don't even bother racking them anymore, Ive never been shut down placing an off set nut but there were plenty of times I had regular nuts and wish I had an off set.   Small cams are more useful than large, you can sometimes fit a small cam in the back of a large crack but you can NEVER fit a large cam in a small crack.  

Finally someone had the courage to ask this question!!!

Hexes are heaven, i placed two today. i like the wild country set with the cloth instead of wires cause theyre easier to place and less likely to move.

Im climbing in shit rock ville, Great Falls, so hexes are more useful than normal, but often they are just great multidirectionals cause they dont wiggle, i like to try and use them as my lowest piece.

Hexes just get left behind once you have a set of doubles or more. My advice is buy once cry once instead of buying stuff you won't use later on. Any granite with pin scars or flares (valley and maybe LCC) totems are heaven but pricy.

I would pick up a set of used BD cams if you are price conscious. You can pick them up in the for sale section of MP for about 35$ a cam. Nuts are also super cheap used, can probably pick up a set for 40$.

Wait for a sale for biners for alpines. I feel like 10 is the number you'll want eventually.

lots of different kinds of cracks out there...my thoughts are that learning how to place passive pro 1st, makes one a better trad climber later, when s/he has a wider selection of gear to choose from...and are less prone to fixing gear in general... not that I mind finding some booty to finagle out for free...ditto Mikey, tri-cams rule!

Are you new to trad leading also? If so, remember you want to be able to place early and often as you practice. So dont skimp and get a nice setup so you have a lot to choose from. It all depends on where you like to climb of course. Mostly you'd want a double rack and a set of nuts. Indian Creek? That would be a triple rack with probably 5 or more of hand sizes.

• Biners: I like litewire type biners for racking gear (light, wiregate, small but not tiny). And either more biners like that or bigger but still light, like Heliums for the rope end.
• Slings: I like 8-10mm dyneema/spectra runners. I'm not a fan of trad draws because cams already have a racking biner on them so a trad draw means an extra biner unless it's used on a nut; so I use over the shoulder slings with one biner each. I grab a loose biner if I need one for a nut.
• Cams: I like C4s for 1-4+. For .2 to .75 I like my doubles of different brands because they tend to fit different placements a little better. I'd do one set of Totems first. The doubles probably Z4s. The second set could be Metolius to save some  money.

1. Doubles 0.4-1
2. Single 0.2, 0.3, 2, 3, maybe a 4 depending if you climb in an area with wide cracks (when doubling these later prioritize the smaller ones)
3. Set of nuts (Metolius curved or DMM offset unless you climb in an area with lots of parallel cracks then just regular ones)
4. Nut tool (with a flat end to hit with your palm to loosen nuts)
5. 2 light weight quickdraws (litewire type biners, thin dogbones)
6. 2 12" runners with biners (not many people use these but I love them, super light, easy to rack, often 12" is how much I want to extend. If you don't get these get a few more 24")
7. 6 24" runners with biners
8. 4 48" runners with biners (2 of these I use for anchors).
9. 6 loose litewire type biners
10. 4 lockers, (2 big for anchor masterpoints, 2 small)
11. Self rescue kit: 1 biner, three 24" tied cord slings for Prusiks, very light knife, 1/4 roll of athletic tape)

You could get hexes instead of a second set of larger cams (cheaper and lighter), but once you have a second set of cams you probably won't use them much.

Connor Dobson wrote: Hexes just get left behind once you have a set of doubles or more. My advice is buy once cry once instead of buying stuff you won't use later on. Any granite with pin scars or flares (valley and maybe LCC) totems are heaven but pricy.

I would pick up a set of used BD cams if you are price conscious. You can pick them up in the for sale section of MP for about 35$ a cam. Nuts are also super cheap used, can probably pick up a set for 40$.

Wait for a sale for biners for alpines. I feel like 10 is the number you'll want eventually.

Pat- Connor's comment is so on the money!

Get BDs but consider spending $3-5 more per cam on them and getting ones that are only a few years old so you don't have to worry about re-slinging them in a couple years (you could always put it off, but most manufacturers recommend re-slinging every 5 years).

Get a rack of nuts but also get both blue DMM offset nuts. You can fill in the other offsets later, but those two blue ones are a godsend- sandstone or otherwise.

As for alpine draws, get 10-12 single length/120cm runners. If you plan on doing a lot of trad, it's 100% worth it to fork-up the extra dough now and buy more expensive snagless (keylock) biners for your alpine draws (maybe for racking biners too). As Connor wisely said, wait til they go on sale! ...I bought cheap biners for my alpine draws when I first started and they snag constantly and now I'm gearing up to buy a whole new set (~300 shipped). That'd be fine, except I already dropped God knows how much on the first set and I'll get <50% reselling them. Again, like Connor says: "buy once cry once".

Buy hexes later, if at all- they're great for gear anchors so that you don't sacrifice a much needed cam on the next pitch! I agree that the fabric slings are less likely to walk, but really love that the BD hexes match the size of cam they correspond to. I own them all, but have yet to use anything smaller than the little blue hex (equal to #0.3) or bigger than the big blue one (equal to #3).

Lastly, my case for a $85 Black Totem (**gasp**):
As pricey and overly-lauded as they are, a black totem might be worth it. Totems are generally the best, but whether they're worth the extra $$$ beyond the smallest size (black) is a matter of opinion. I will say, when gripped out of your mind and the only visible crack is tips-sized- I love having a cam I know will hold, even if it isn't perfectly placed. As I'm guessing you've researched, cams work best when the lobes are equally retracted, and this is even more important with small cams with a much narrower margin of error. Perfectly equal retraction is rare but Totem lobes operate independent from each other and are far less susceptible to failing when retraction is not perfect. Here on MP, Marco sells them reliably and the next order will come by the end of May, if he hasn't sold out. Search for "Marc-Olivier Chabot" and you'll find them.

Wishing you safe entry into the wonderful world of trad!

Buy only a number 4 and up, that way everyone will come to you for a partner and you can use their double rack. 

M Alexander wrote: Buy only a number 4 and up, that way everyone will come to you for a partner and you can use their double rack. 

Ha! This is actually pretty good advice.

there’s a new first-rack thread bi-monthly it seems. I don’t wanna be the guy that just says use the search, but...

M Alexander wrote: Buy only a number 4 and up, that way everyone will come to you for a partner and you can use their double rack. 

If someone buys a 7/8, they can borrow my creek rack if they let me borrow those.

First thing you should get is a nut tool. If you are already climbing with partners who have gear they will appreciate this.

Climbed in utah a bit this winter but in no way know a lot about the area. Seems like a double rack is almost necessary. I didn't see much in the way of short routes and the place likes cams with all those fancy cracks you have around.

As far as getting all your own gear and not relying on anything from a partner, this is what I would get:

1. Doubles .4 to 3
2. One #4, 0.2, 0.3
3. Set of offset nuts
4. Set of regular nuts
5. 6 alpine draws
6. Couple longer slings
7. Whatever sport gear you have (rap kit, anchor stuff, belay device, draws etc)

Notes:

• I prefer flexible cams from 0.5 and down. Aliens/totem basic/mastercam
• I usually love hexes, ontario limestone takes them really well. I didn't place any in utah so I didn't mention them. Seems like the rock doesn't like them as much. Hexes are great though, don't listen to the haters
• Maybe don't need two sets of nuts. I find I place the offsets way more than regular nuts and don't really rack regulars that often anymore
• Eventually you'll want more alpine draws. I straight up rack 14 alpines and no regular draws on multipitch now. Rope drag sucks and the extra slings are nice for building anchors, slinging stuff, tying onto a bag of wine etc.

Pat Marrinan wrote: Want to start building a rack but since I don’t have anything yet the amount of options is a little overwhelming. I’ve heard for my area (UT) people recommend doubles .3-3 and some nuts. Any advice welcome, thanks!

Real talk: your trad rack is going to be based on two things:

1. The rock that you climb on.
2. Personal preference.

Most of my trad climbing experience is in two areas: the Gunks and Chattanooga. The racks I bring to these two places are pretty different. In the Gunks I'd bring mostly small-mid Totems, nuts (doubles on smaller sizes), a few tricams, and some ball nuts (although these would stay in my backpack on the ground unless I had beta I'd need them). In Chattanooga I'd bring a fewer cams, larger nuts, and hexes--if I spotted pockets from the ground I'd bring tricams.

But to be clear, those are MY preferences. I've tried a lot of things that people love and didn't like them (I don't care for Aliens or Totem Basics which are similar, but some people love them). I'm okay with tricams in the Gunks but some Gunks climbers hate them. I'm not big on tricams in Chattanooga area but some Chattanooga climbers love them. I like hexes in Chattanooga and not in the Gunks, but some climbers have exactly the opposite opinion.

The reality is that you need to go out and actually try the gear to discover what you like for the rock you climb on. There's nobody on the internet who's going to be able to tell you that.

David K wrote:

Real talk: your trad rack is going to be based on two things:

1. The rock that you climb on.
2. Personal preference.

Most of my trad climbing experience is in two areas: the Gunks and Chattanooga. The racks I bring to these two places are pretty different. In the Gunks I'd bring mostly small-mid Totems, nuts (doubles on smaller sizes), a few tricams, and some ball nuts (although these would stay in my backpack on the ground unless I had beta I'd need them). In Chattanooga I'd bring a fewer cams, larger nuts, and hexes--if I spotted pockets from the ground I'd bring tricams.

But to be clear, those are MY preferences. I've tried a lot of things that people love and didn't like them (I don't care for Aliens or Totem Basics which are similar, but some people love them). I'm okay with tricams in the Gunks but some Gunks climbers hate them. I'm not big on tricams in Chattanooga area but some Chattanooga climbers love them. I like hexes in Chattanooga and not in the Gunks, but some climbers have exactly the opposite opinion.

The reality is that you need to go out and actually try the gear to discover what you like for the rock you climb on. There's nobody on the internet who's going to be able to tell you that.

I think David brings up a great point with the suggestion being that if you can you should try to climb on other peoples gear for a bit. Try a bunch of stuff and see what you like. 

outdoorgearlab.com/topics/c…

They do a good job on their reviews, but don't have a review of the new Black Diamond Z4 yet.

For Medium / Large cams BD C4s are the standard. Ultralight C4s are nice but expensive and have to be retired after 10 years because they use fibers not metal. Wild Country are knockoffs.

For Small Cams: Aliens were the original internal spring, narrow head, flexible stem cams. Their patent is up, the name sold to Fixe, and now many companies make similar designs. DMM Dragonflies are well liked. Totems hold really well, but are expensive (don't generally go on sale like the other brands and can be hard to find in stock) and bulky.  Metolius Ultralight Mastercams are a good value.

As mentioned try to climb in other people's gear, but if you can't do that go to a mountain shop and play with them. Personal preference plays a role. You may like the feel of some brands better.

Find stuff on sale. A lot of stuff is currently on sale. e.g. C4s at 25% off.

If It was me I'd buy a set of Totems .2 to .5 and a set of C4s .75 to 3 (maybe 2 #1s). A set of nuts. Then do some easy or shorter climbs. You wouldn't regret buying any of that stuff. 

Here is a link: Beginning Trad Rack