Camp Photons

Hey all,

I've got a couple questions (see bold below) about CAMP Photon wiregates as racking 'biners, as I ponder an unnecessary switch from BD neutrinos. Searching forums has been inconclusive (surprise), so since MP is in no shortage of opinions, I'd love to hear your experience with Photons, knowing that I'm particularly interested in the downsides (if any).

THIN NOSE PROFILE:
-   Light and allows for more space on your harness... GREAT. But I also read in a different thread that the thin/more sharp spot between the basket and the nose could result in rope damage if you somehow manage to fall there. Is that fantasy or has anyone had that happen?

WEAK SPRING:
- The old version was a little weak in the spring. Was this resolved with the 2017 redesign? Are Photon springs now snappy... and how long do they stay that way? I've only owned two Photons and one would occasionally get stuck in the open position, resulting in its early retirement. Was that a one-off?

Thanks!

Yes, it happens. But this is a small percent of the rope severing incidents, which in turn is small number in its own right.

I have a lot of photons. When the gates get sticky I just lube them and they keep working fine. Not a deal breaker for me. I still think they are great for racking and alpine draws. 

I have a few I use on alpine draws. I've never had any negative thoughts about them. The size and shape make them good for taking a double length sling and making an alpine draw short enough to not get in the way. Basically, I fold it over like usual to make an alpine draw, then do the same thing again so my double length draw is the same length of a regular alpine draw. I can undo one iteration to get extension equal to a regular alpine draw fully extended, then if I need more extension under the other iteration to get it fully extended. Need a big carabiner to make that work with nylon slings. 

I previously used photons and nanos on all my racking biners but stopped. The nose on the photon is just not a good design and they easily get hooked around each other if you are thrashing around. One simple design change, making the width of the nose wider than the distance between the wires on the gate would resolve my issue. Also the sticky gates do get annoying because you have to lube them frequently.

^same

The thickness of the Photon at the rope bearing surface is very thin. Theoretically, this would make rope drag worse and, if taking lots of whips, wear out your rope faster. Not sure if these factors are significant in real life. Something like a Petzl Ange has much more surface area in the basket.

My favorite racking biners to replace Neutrinos are the DMM Phantom.

All my photons are great, no issues, and work as expected. No spring issues, rope-drag issues any of that. Have never lubed any of them. I will continue buying them as my racking biner and bolt side biner for my alpine draws until they stop production.

Now my nuetrinos (think I have one sticking) and my BD Oz (I constantly have 1-3 sticking and requiring lubricant) those are another story.

I've used them quite a lot and the gate sticking issue was very common a couple of generations ago but was resolved a few years back.  They still will start losing their spring tension/snappiness after 400+ days of use, but that's to be expected of most wiregates.  I've fallen on them quite a lot at this point and have never had an issue with them.  I have experienced the hooking issue Parker is talking about, (mostly in chimneys and flares) but it's never been bad enough that I'd want to change to a heavier/bulkier carabiner.  The light weight and low profile is well worth it to me.

Been using them since they came out.   I really like them, especially for alpine stuff.  Never had any issues.  Lately however I’ve been switching over to Mammut Crag wire and solid gate biners.   They are a little more robust feeling and confidence inspiring.   I’m also starting to use the Camp Dyon and like them but they are pretty pricey.

I'd go with nano 22 over photons for racking.
If you're not going premium like chimera/alpha/helium/dyon, might as well get some lightness. You can find them on sale for not too much more than photons.

I use a mixture of Nanos and Photons and like them both a lot. 

All of my alpine draws are photons and have been great for the last three years. I have a mix of the pre 2017 (some of which have inconsistent spring tension) and current design ones. The current models are fix the spring and tension issues. I have also become a big fan of the Dyons.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Sorry photons are only rated to like 6000 lbs. How much more confidence you need?

I am in full agreement with you,  but the Mammut Crag is just beefier and just gives me a little more confidence, I’m sure it’s a totally unfounded and I’ve taken lots of falls on Photons and will continue to but the Crag is starting to become my new favorite. 

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I am in full agreement with you,  but the Mammut Crag is just beefier and just gives me a little more confidence, I’m sure it’s a totally unfounded and I’ve taken lots of falls on Photons and will continue to but the Crag is starting to become my new favorite. 

I have a handful of the Mammut Wall Lights, which are their equivalent of the Nano. I REALLY like them. I had never seen a Crag until you mentioned them but that looks very similar to the Photon in size and utility. 

I have been on the eternal search for the perfect biner. Right now, my racking biners are all CAMP Dyon's for my Dragon II's and Neutrino's for C4's, just because they come in the correct colors. Dyon's have the thinnest nose profile, yet retain a good sized rope bearing radius.

The CAMP Photon, Orbit and the BD Hotwire are about the same size. The Dyon is slightly smaller, and the DMM Chimera/Phantom are the smallest carabiner I will carry.  I threw the Spirit in there for comparison.  I prefer a full size biner for sport draws, no reason to try and save a few ounces for the pain of a mini biner. All of my alpine draws have either a Chimera or a Phantom, since I also have a rack of gear on me and need to shave ounces wherever I can.

The action of the CAMP Orbit/Photon is much softer than either the BD, Dyon or DMM wire gates. Some people like snappy gates, others like softer gates. 

Clock wise from top left:  DMM Chimera; DMM Phantom; Petzl Spirit; CAMP Dyon; BD Hotwire; CAMP Orbit and CAMP Photon.

+1 on sticky gate issues with the photons. Personally I've had this issue with a couple of my newer ones (last two years) rather than the previous generation. Lubing the gates seems to do the trick. Still my racking carabiner of choice.

Buck Rio wrote

As important as the axis pictured here, (if not more so) is the profile as it informs how many carabiners you can fit on a gear loop.  I haven't used BD carabiners in years now, but that and weight were the two biggest differences I noticed when I made the switch.

Max Tepfer wrote:

As important as the axis pictured here, (if not more so) is the profile as it informs how many carabiners you can fit on a gear loop.  I haven't used BD carabiners in years now, but that and weight were the two biggest differences I noticed when I made the switch.

I use a gear sling if I am having trouble with too much gear on my harness. I actually hate the feeling of a full rack on my waist, so I tend to use a sling for most multipitch climbing. 

Thanks for all the productive insight everyone, I really appreciate it! There has been zero thread drift, no infighting, AND... no one posted the DMM anchor failures video- I'm amazed!

I rarely ever clip the racking 'biner directly (almost always use an alpine draw- either fully extended or folded), so snagless racking 'biners aren't really worth the investment for me. However, for all of my alpine draws, I will be upgrading both 'biners from neutrinos to snagless keylock DMM Chimeras. Clipping and unclipping cam slings with neutrinos is really my main carabiner pain point.

And based on your feedback here, my plan is to eventually upgrade my racking Neutrinos to Photons and accept the (very minute) risk that in the off-chance I clipped the racking 'biner directly and fell, it might somehow land on the thin/sharpish spot I originally asked about. I might just stick with Neutrinos since I just got an MM Cadillac and now have 2 extra gear loops...

Gosh Glance wrote: Thanks for all the productive insight everyone, I really appreciate it! There has been zero thread drift, no infighting, AND... no one posted the DMM anchor failures video- I'm amazed!

I rarely ever clip the racking 'biner directly (almost always use an alpine draw- either fully extended or folded), so snagless racking 'biners aren't really worth the investment for me. However, for all of my alpine draws, I will be upgrading both 'biners from neutrinos to snagless keylock DMM Chimeras. Clipping and unclipping cam slings with neutrinos is really my main carabiner pain point.

And based on your feedback here, my plan is to eventually upgrade my racking Neutrinos to Photons and accept the (very minute) risk that in the off-chance I clipped the racking 'biner directly and fell, it might somehow land on the thin/sharpish spot I originally asked about. I might just stick with Neutrinos since I just got an MM Cadillac and now have 2 extra gear loops...

I actually find the reverse true...I can't stand a notched biner for racking. Nothing worse than being all scrunched up under a roof and having a racking biner get snagged on my gear loops.