Edelrid Spoc Safety Warning

EDIT: Turns out Edelrid did respond after a few days, it got caught in spam. Sorry Edelrid, +1 for customer service but the concerns about the product still stand.

Well, my Spoc broke and could have dropped me while being used the way it's supposed to be. I tried messaging Edelrid about this via email and Instagram and haven't gotten any response. As plenty of people are top-rope solo'ing remote crags through this quarantine it seemed necessary to spread the word.

Long and short of it, don't trust your life to one Spoc. Of course, you should never trust your life to one thing, but we often do it anyways from time to time  (grigri, rope, etc) and I know plenty of people who top rope solo on a single microtrax.

The issue is the double attachment points. They're wide enough for the screw of a screwgate to get into, but then the screw can catch on one plate, leading to all the load being on  that plate, leading to an unbalanced load on the axel. This makes the rope push the "top" sideplate outwards, and it can pop out of it's notch and bend/break, which could release the rope with a bit more twisting/force. I was using a backup, fortunately, but this is a pretty significant failure mechanism, especially because it can (and did) happen while being used per manufacturer's instructions; no slack in the system, gentle fall, appropriate carabiner, etc.

Pictures are worth a thousand words...the bending/twisting is worse under full load, of course

Does the microtrax have steel side plates? That would help prevent this kind of bending failure but the real solution is to make the attachment point flatter. A cylinder going through a hole can always be twisted so that it can bind or break. This has happened with grigri's (lead soloing, the Tom Randal incident) and has likely happened with other equipment as well.

I really wish manufacturers would recognize this and make all carabiner attachment points narrower. It'd be really simple to have the grigri come down to just two steel plates with a hole in them instead of how it is now, for example.

But anyways. Stay safe out there ya'll, and...you know, maybe buy the microtrax even though it's 20g heavier.

Dang man... glad you’re alright. Thanks for information and update. I have a spoc and use it for that purpose. Good write up and thanks for passing it along to us 

A Microtrax has aluminum side plates too, and the holes are also big enough to fit over a screwgate.  You should probably change the thread title so you don't just throw Edelrid under the bus, since this isn't unique to them.

Arguably, this is more a problem of cross-loading than it is with the progress capture device.  There is a reason people use special carabiners to prevent cross-loading in scenarios where it could be fatal, such as TR solo.  I use a BD Gridlock, but there are lots of options out there.

I'd argue that this is not use "per manufacturer's instructions."  TR solo is generally not strictly approved use, and the "legal" recommendation is 2 devices for redundancy so you don't die if this happens.  They also aren't supposed to be use unattended where they can be crossloaded.  Don't get me wrong, I use them like this too, but it's kinda at your own risk.

The CT Roll'n'lock has a different design with a sleeve that connects the side plates, so this particular failure mode cannot happen, if that gives you the warm fuzzies.

Kyle, I think it's appropriate to critique a product that can fail when used per the manufacture's instructions, especially once you've given them a chance to address the issue first (they have not bothered to respond). They made the thing that can easily cross-load to failure, after all.

I sold my Gridlock so I can't test with that, but I don't think an "anti-crossloading" carabiner will fix this. The part that jammed wasn't the spine of the carabiner, it was the gate, and the DMM Rhino or whatever wouldn't change that. Even a quicklink has the screw to catch on. This problem is exacerbated by how large the holes in the spoc are; they're much bigger than those on the microtrax.

The problem really is the Spoc, not the carabiner used. A non-locker would be less likely to jam, but it's still possible, and using a non-locker opens up other obvious safety concerns.

Anson __ wrote: Kyle, I think it's appropriate to critique a product that can fail when used per the manufacture's instructions,

Can you link to where Edelrid says it's ok to TR solo on this device unattended, with a system that allows it to get crossloaded?

 especially once you've given them a chance to address the issue first (they have not bothered to respond). They made the thing that can easily cross-load to failure, after all.

Cross-loading is a possible problem with every carabiner and many devices.  So, I guess, in that context, we should be critiquing them all.

I sold my Gridlock so I can't test with that, but I don't think an "anti-crossloading" carabiner will fix this. The part that jammed wasn't the spine of the carabiner, it was the gate, and the DMM Rhino or whatever wouldn't change that. Even a quicklink has the screw to catch on.

You put the device into the "small end" of the Gridlock, like BD recommends you do with a Grigri.  There is nothing in the small end to get caught on. mountainproject.com/forum/t…

Petzl also makes a device to do the same thing, called the CAPTIV.  It keeps the device away from the gate: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Professional/Connectors/CAPTIV

DMM Belay Master would also likely work, although you'd want to test it: dmmclimbing.com/Products/Lo…

The problem really is the Spoc, not the carabiner used. A non-locker would be less likely to jam, but it's still possible, and using a non-locker opens up other obvious safety concerns.

Microtrax has the same "problem."

This is a legitimate risk, and it's good that you highlighted.  However, we need to think about this as a possible scenario for TR soloing that can be resolved with appropriate techniques and equipment selection, not an anti-Edelrid witch hunt.

The microtrax has smaller holes, so you can't fit the screw of the screwgate in the hole as easily. That helps significantly, I believe

The instructions for using the spoc can easily be found on Edelrid's website, as you know. I used an approved carabiner, a chest harness, and a backup. How does that change the fact that their product broke and could have failed when being used as recommended from a "fall" that was really just sitting down? Redundancy etc aside, this is a device that breaks when you use it the way they tell you to use it.

I am critiquing all devices that allow for this. Please read my last paragraph in the initial post.

Or put differently, appropriate techniques were being used and will not avoid this, and testing shows that "appropriate equipment" is not an edelrid spoc. I have been an edelrid loyalist for a while now, but this product is more dangerous than the alternatives and should be avoided.

I definitely think a non-screwlock locking carabiner could solve this problem. First, having the anti crossloading bar should help reduce the likelihood of this happening, since it keeps the carabiner oriented the right way, but a Grivel double gate or even a magnetron or Edelrid slide gate shouldn't have this same issue, right?

So sorry this happened to you, and I'm glad you had a backup!

This carabiner would likely solve your problem.

Anson __ wrote: The microtrax has smaller holes, so you can't fit the screw of the screwgate in the hole as easily. That helps significantly, I believe

Microtrax fits over:

• Petzl OK
• Petzl Attache
• Petzl William
• BD Pearabiner
• BD Nitron
• Camp Photon
• Mad Rock Oval
• Grivel Plume
• Grivel Twingate
• BD Gridlock
• Edelrid Slider

Doesn't fit over an old Camp Picto HMS that I have.

That's 11/12 of the locking carabiners I have.  Come on, let's not pretend this is unique to the Spoc.

And yet it's still more likely to happen with bigger holes, obviously. If this happens as commonly with microtaxes I'm curious why I've never seen an accident report on it...

This kind of quibbling feels like quarantine boredom. Disregard the warning if you'd like, but it seemed necessary to share it.

I think that posting "The Spoc is dangerous, go with the Microtrax", like you did here, is far more dangerous, because it might encourage people to think that this failure mode only applies to one device and that they can avoid it simply by buying something else.  They can't, and that advice could get somebody hurt.

And here I thought less dangerous was better! How is recommending a safer product going to get someone hurt? I didn't say not to use a backup or anything at all regarding techniques. Give me a break.

Because like fight club we don't talk about top rope solo!

But I to put a rubberband at both end of my carabiner so this type of fulcrum prying cross loading couldn't happen :\. Most stuff aren't design to get a leveraging load (quickdraw, grigri, etc).

And is this actually on the manufacturing instruction or are you just fibbing?

Here are the instructions: media.edelrid.de/images/att…

It doesn't say anything about TR solo  It does say to keep the device under tension while ascending a rope.  And if the instructions are elsewhere on the site, they undoubtedly include using a backup, which implies that the device is fallible.  

Better yet though, how about using your brain to recognize an obvious failure mode and do something to mitigate it (backup, grommet for orientation, neck strap, etc.) .  Take some personal responsibility instead of blaming the manufacturer. 

Anson __ wrote: And here I thought less dangerous was better! How is recommending a safer product going to get someone hurt? I didn't say not to use a backup or anything at all regarding techniques. Give me a break.

How did you determine that a Microtraxion is more safe? Did you perform any research or did you just based that conclusion from what you read online :\. Running around spouting stuff you read online and stating it as a fact IMO is more dangerous ...

AND

Checked my Microtraxion .... Carabiner with more square locking collar are more prone to catching :\ So imo the traxion is just as dangerous ...

I used it per instructions as an ascender, which is what it's doing in a top rope solo situation, and I follow petzl's recommendations for soloing on a single strand; chest harness on top ascender and backup beneath it. If you bought a grigri and it broke on you catching a routine fall, you might be a little upset with Petzl.

People can try and turn this into a discussion of top rope soloing techniques if they'd like but that's not the point. Yes, you should use a chest harness to keep the top ascender oriented correctly, and use a backup...like I did, so shove the lectures on "personal responsibility".  The point is that the spoc is more likely to fail in this way than other ascender. I can fiddle and fuss with my Petzl Basic ascenders and get a carabiner to bind in them, but that's never happened in the field because it's a lower probability of occurring.

The spoc has a higher probability of binding and safer alternatives should be preferred if available.

Anson, there is no device designed for TR soloing, so you have to accept additional risk and learn to mitigate those risks.  

I have replicated this exact issue with a microtraxion when testing a simulclimbing fall on a running piece of gear.  I learned that carabiner choice is very important to ensure proper alignment of the progress capture device, and you must also find a way to avoid the crossloading issue to make the system reliable. 

I would file this under user error. If you are not using a conector that limts rotion to solo on any device you are exposed to failure with out redundancy. I use a single shunt and  3/8 twist shackle this is by far the most idiot resistant set up.  I never liked the micro as a tope rope solo device.  

The CT Roll'n'lock has a different design with a sleeve that connects the side plates, so this particular failure mode cannot happen

I'm not sure if I agree with this

I've caught my rollnlock pulling this kind of bumblefoolery multiple times now while loaded. It still catches, but I don't really trust it. The side plate is very prone to opening even while it's on a biner
This post is a welcome eye-opener

Eric Roe wrote: do something to mitigate it (backup, grommet for orientation, neck strap, etc.) .  Take some personal responsibility...

OP, not trying to flame you, just adding my voice that I'm with mr Roe, when there is a way to mitigate a problem, even if it's a hassle, I will always take the extra time/hassle, in order to mitigate a problem, especially one so serious. The grommets are a pain, but I consider them the same way I consider knots on rap- mandatory, no argument, no question, etc.
That said, I appreciate you posting as it reinforced what should already be known about these devices, that they need to be constrained in such a way that minimizes risk. Thanks for the reminder.

Anson __ wrote: Well, my Spoc broke and could have dropped me while being used the way it's supposed to be. I tried messaging Edelrid about this via email and Instagram and haven't gotten any response. As plenty of people are top-rope solo'ing remote crags through this quarantine it seemed necessary to spread the word.

Long and short of it, don't trust your life to one Spoc. Of course, you should never trust your life to one thing, but we often do it anyways from time to time  (grigri, rope, etc) and I know plenty of people who top rope solo on a single microtrax.

The issue is the double attachment points. They're wide enough for the screw of a screwgate to get into, but then the screw can catch on one plate, leading to all the load being on  that plate, leading to an unbalanced load on the axel. This makes the rope push the "top" sideplate outwards, and it can pop out of it's notch and bend/break, which could release the rope with a bit more twisting/force. I was using a backup, fortunately, but this is a pretty significant failure mechanism, especially because it can (and did) happen while being used per manufacturer's instructions; no slack in the system, gentle fall, appropriate carabiner, etc.

Pictures are worth a thousand words...the bending/twisting is worse under full load, of course

Does the microtrax have steel side plates? That would help prevent this kind of bending failure but the real solution is to make the attachment point flatter. A cylinder going through a hole can always be twisted so that it can bind or break. This has happened with grigri's (lead soloing, the Tom Randal incident) and has likely happened with other equipment as well.

I really wish manufacturers would recognize this and make all carabiner attachment points narrower. It'd be really simple to have the grigri come down to just two steel plates with a hole in them instead of how it is now, for example.

But anyways. Stay safe out there ya'll, and...you know, maybe buy the microtrax even though it's 20g heavier.

I suspect you'll get flamed for not knowing this in advance and realizing that you don't want any device jammed up sideways on a carabiner gate. Even a Grigri can snap off a biner gate and kill ya if one is not careful, however, I'd like to make sure you know that most of us are grateful to learn this the easy way. THANK YOU !