Cold Cold World Chaos for Denali climb?

Wondering if anyone had thoughts on the CCW Chaos and if it can handle the loads of a West But. Denali climb? My gear is very slimmed down and lightweight (have done Aconcagua), so wondering if the CCW Chaos can do the loads demanded of Denali - namely 40lb.

Thanks all!

PS: If anyone has a CCW Chaos Large I would be interested!

I think the Chaos could handle that much - or in any case I have lugged that much in mine.  But I'm skeptical that you will get by with only 40lb. on that route.

Yes. If you can find a thin piece of plastic to create a quick framesheet, it'll be even better.

Sled to 14k and do it from there...yeah, no problemo.  Ha ha.

Hmmm.  Sled to 11k, double or triple carry to 14k.  Then move up light to 17k with a good forecast.

Yeah, should do.

Go in late May and summit in June.  Warmer means less sleeping bag and less warm clothes.

Josh, a 70L pack is slightly on the small size for Denali.   But people definitely make do with that size.  

 I've seen plenty of Hyperlite 70L packs up there.   The challenge with pack size is the day spent moving up to 17k camp.   Every other day on the mountain you could get away with a 30L pack and put everything in the sled.   My current Denali pack is the Montbell Expedition 80L which with the lid is more like other brands 90L packs.

Handle? It won't break :-)

Have you ever carried 40lbs or even 30lbs a considerable distance in a frameless pack? Like just casual backpacking?  

For every question you ask there will be some hardman online to tell you they did it uphill both ways. Packs didn't have frames when men were men. They can sleep 12 fulfilling hours on a blue Walmart foam pad. They bivied at 17k in a 15F bag.

I don't like carrying 40lbs on my back with a frame. So that'd be a hard "no" from me, but I'm weak. 

Im sure, even if you decide that the chaos isnt right for you, if you talk to randy, and tell him what you need you will get the best pack you have ever had.
At least that what i did. Dont regret that purchase one bit!

Thanks all for the quick replies,

I am very experienced - just haven't had the big $$$ to do larger peaks other than Aconcagua. Done most of the big ones in the US and some in Canada, though. I used an Osprey Xenith 88 on Aconcagua and it carried well, but was a heavy pack. I have a Hyperlite SW 4400 for my winter set up and holds a Denali load well (-20 bag, parka, insulated pants,  1/2-1/3 VE 25, cook wear, mits, etc, basically all but the food)., so that was the inquiry behind asking about the Chaos since it is roughly the same size, but better outside attachment capabilities.

I was thinking I would get the Chaos and add a ULA Catalyst foam-rod back panel for $15, cut the foam pad down 2 panels, and have a more capable load carrying system for cheap. I bought a CCW Valdez from Randy and absolutely love it, so that's why I am wondering about the Chaos. Chaos with the sled no problem, carries from different camps if doing a double carry would be food one day, camp gear the rest, so am just curious how those loads have worked with others.

*Aconcagua we had a crazy summit attempt and I ended up coming back down with at least 90lbs of gear. Of course that was my first 20 day expedition on a high mountain so I have learned a lot from that experience. My baseweight minus food, fuel, and water for an expedition is about $30-35lbs....basically: has anyone done Denali in a CCW Chaos? And, what was their experience?

Josh Borchardt wrote: Thanks all for the quick replies,

I am very experienced - just haven't had the big $$$ to do larger peaks other than Aconcagua. Done most of the big ones in the US and some in Canada, though. 

Any in the top ten in either country?  Logan, St. Elias, Foraker, Lucania, Bona, Blackburn, etc?  

Josh Borchardt wrote: 
I was thinking I would get the Chaos and add a ULA Catalyst foam-rod back panel for $15, cut the foam pad down 2 panels, and have a more capable load carrying system for cheap. I bought a CCW Valdez from Randy and absolutely love it, so that's why I am wondering about the Chaos. Chaos with the sled no problem, carries from different camps if doing a double carry would be food one day, camp gear the rest, so am just curious how those loads have worked with others.

So I have a hard-on for US made outdoor products and I fully support you giving CCW and ULA money...but especially if money is a concern I wouldn't be all that psyched on experimenting with a franken-pack. What if it doesn't work out as you envision? A backpack isn't as complicated as a Ferrari but maybe those parts just won't get along.

Your Osprey treat you ok? How about the Aether Pro? It's lighter and you should easily be able to find it on sale for about the same $$ as your proposed rig.

Assuming you climb the West Buttress conventionally (sled to 14, with perhaps a couple gear ferries between 11 and 14k), the Chaos would be perfectly suitable. And CCW is a superb shop that makes excellent packs.

As others have said, if you are using as sled to 14 70l would be fine imo.  It does limit you abilty to ditch thd sled and packing is harder but should be fine.   

I used a BD Mission 75 on Denali and while the pack was often totally full, I never wished for a larger one. We were a group of 3 and started out with 3 sleds. We left one at 11k and then ended up going to the summit from 14k. If you are planning on moving camp to 17k that would probably be when you'll be wishing you had a larger pack - there's just a lot of bulky gear depending on your group size (Shit can, Big tent, big sleeping bag, Big puffy, etc). But it'll definitely work. 

I have a CCW Chaos which I like a great deal.   I also have a Gregory Denali, which I used on a 10 day trip in Alaska (Mt Drum), which required backpacking pretty big loads (60#+/-) most of the way up the mountain, sleds are not really an option there.  The internal frame makes a big difference in that scenario, people on the trip with frameless packs were considerably less happy with their choice.

I have never used sleds or been on Denali, but if you are just thinking of backpacking heavy loads then I wouldn't go for the Chaos, as much as I love it.

Thank you all for your help (especially Chaos owners)! I love my Valdez but most are probably right - the Chaos could work, but a frame is better. I do like the Mont-bell expedition 80. I think that is a pretty good middle road at a decent weight.

Thanks again!

Mountain Hardwear just released a new line of expedition packs geared towards Denali climbs with a 75L option and a 100L option.

Exped also makes expedition geared packs made to tow a sled & haul tons of gear.

Though I've never been on the big D, I'd probably haul my Osprey as it fits me very well.

Not sure if 75L is too small, but Mammut's new Trion Spine Alpine is geared towards bigger alpine climbs and looks pretty cool.  It's a little different from most options.

A super light option could be HMG's Porter 5400 at a claimed 3.06 pounds for a 90L pack.  I'm not sure if you give up a ton of comfort to save the pound and a half, though.

There's always the option to have John at Alpine Luddites sew you a custom rig to your measurements and specifications.  Not a cheap option, but his packs are bulletproof and dialed.

It sounds like you have 2 perfectly good packs for Denali.  We did Denali on a pretty shoestring budget, and limited buying specialized gear.  If money is really a hindrance, then I would just use the zenith and the Hyperlite and call it a day.  I brought the aether 70 and a  30L pack. I eventually just put the big pack fully loaded in my sled with the duffel and would only wear the smaller pack. I used the same set up on Aconcagua and had success on both mountains.  I'm happy to help with any other tips, questions or advice.

SinRopa wrote: I haven’t used their new line, but I climbed Denali guided with the MH BMG 105, and later unguided with their South Col 70.

The new AMG line seems significantly heavier...4 lbs 15.4 oz for the AMG 75 vs 3 lbs 13 oz for the South Col 70 (which is 75L in the M-L model). The 105L difference is only 1/2 lb.

Curious if anyone has owned both and can weigh in on what the differences are and how/why MH managed to add over a pound to a 75 liter pack...

If the added weight is a vastly improved suspension I would take the weight in a heartbeat.   The bmg was the perfect pack, except that for me is was extremely uncomfortable with any weight in it.  I sold mine immediately.

tangential question: is the hip belt on the Chaos removable? can't find that info on CCW website

The one thing to consider with a 4000cu in / 70L pack is that while you can probably get everything in there your are going to be spending time stuffing the hell out things. Which often means not being able to wear thick gloves or mittens. It is much easier to be able to dump shit in there cinch down the straps and go. Also when you do need something you can open the pack up root around without taking stuff out.

Hey, ARS, curious what pack you used on Denali?

I used the old Dana Design Astralplane.  Big pack.  Appreciated real suspension for the real weight carried.

Be nice to have a small, light pack...so says my back...ha ha.

One thing I've used a number of times is a sleeping bag stuff sack that doubles as a summit pack.  Basically a really light pack with shoulder straps.  Mines a semi custom rig that Serratus used to make.  I think Lowe (Alpine Attack Summit?) still makes one.  MEC might too.  Pretty handy for a summit parka and other stuff for a summit bid.  I always dislike the thought of re configuring my pack lid as a fanny pack...and they don't hold or carry much or well especially with a harness on.  Even with the stays removed and my main pack stripped down, its a heavy rig.  Glad to leave it (intact) at high camp.  

I see BD has a new pack that weighs...one ounce.  Not sure big enough for a 0 to -20 degree bag...but...that's light.