Professions for a Climbing Career

Hello,

I am graduating college this June and am currently planning on going to coding bootcamp in Denver (to move to CO). I have been climbing for awhile and want to focus as much time as I can on climbing, however I know I need to make money and have some kind of a career. I am good at logic and software engineering is a good profession as it will be intellectually engaging as well as high paying and (hopefully, I know it depends on the employer) normal 40-45hr weeks. I don't care about my career/improving or moving up the "ladder" I only care about becoming the best climber I can and living in a place where others find passions>career (why I want to move to Denver/Boulder/Golden area). While I LOVED studying exercise science in school (because it makes me a better athlete), I am choosing this path because it pays more and keeps me off my feet so I can perform on the wall.... my issue is that what I love doing doesn't make any money. I don't understand how people become slaves to their career... this sounds absurd I know but I want to stay true to what matters to me, and that is climbing. Is this insane? Any thoughts from software engineers/ other climbers? Is this a good idea/ bad idea/ alternatives? Originally I was thinking Physical Therapy but i don't want to stand on my feet all day (so I'm tired for climbing), work with elder people(a worthy profession but not my interests) and the pay is lower. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Pip Hokr wrote: Hello,

I am graduating college this June and am currently planning on going to coding bootcamp in Denver (to move to CO). I have been climbing for awhile and want to focus as much time as I can on climbing, however I know I need to make money and have some kind of a career. I am good at logic and software engineering is a good profession as it will be intellectually engaging as well as high paying and (hopefully, I know it depends on the employer) normal 40-45hr weeks. I don't care about my career/improving or moving up the "ladder" I only care about becoming the best climber I can and living in a place where others find passions>career (why I want to move to Denver/Boulder/Golden area). While I LOVED studying exercise science in school (because it makes me a better athlete), I am choosing this path because it pays more and keeps me off my feet so I can perform on the wall.... my issue is that what I love doing doesn't make any money. I don't understand how people become slaves to their career... this sounds absurd I know but I want to stay true to what matters to me, and that is climbing. Is this insane? Any thoughts from software engineers/ other climbers? Is this a good idea/ bad idea/ alternatives? Originally I was thinking Physical Therapy but i don't want to stand on my feet all day (so I'm tired for climbing), work with elder people(a worthy profession but not my interests) and the pay is lower. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

The people I know that earn good money and climb use paragraphs.

you are afraid standing on your feet all day will make you too tired to climb?

oh boy

Hopefully you enjoy coding. Whether you are a slave to your career or not, a 40 hour work week means you're spending 36% of your waking hours just working. So if you can, do something you enjoy.

my advice - keep your work life and your real life separate.  doing what you love for work is a sure fire way to fall out of love with what you love...

and yes, standing on your feet all day every day, and then going climbing on the weekends isn't very fun for your feet after a while.

Heyo.  I'm a full time software duder.

To be honest, unless you just love the hell out playing with computers, you're better off starting a lawn care business or something.

I have the best job I know of... 30hr weeks, all remote, salary + benefits, flexible hours, however much time off I need, fun problems to solve.  

It took me 10 years to get here, and I started at $12/hr 1099'd, and not even full time.  I have an BA in Philosophy, and MA and most of a PhD in English, and I'm more or less entirely self taught as a developer... so I am sympathetic to the "get out of college and code" idea.

If you gotta make money, you gotta make money.  You're gonna be better off if you either learn how to love stuff like programming or you just give up on the idea of liking your money gig and find somethign that is a reasonable compromise between time and money.

However, personally I feel the same way about playing with computers as I do about playing music or climbing: I want to be as good as possible, and I don't care if I have to obsess or slog for miles to get the skills I want.  So it's not hard for me to learn how to love programming.

If you just want to climb and don't really want to rework your desires, skip the coding boot camp and figure out a small service business like lawn care or washing cars or pet care or personal training or something that lets you schedule yourself.  Or find something seasonal.

Cause if you don't love playing with computers and spending 60 hours a week playing with them until you have a sale-able skill, then you're gonna have a bad time.

If you have specific questions about programming as a career, I'm willing to answer stuff though...

How’s the debt situation? Could you save up for the summer, hit the road for a year, and then assess your options?

John Reeve wrote:To be honest, unless you just love the hell out playing with computers, you're better off starting a lawn care business or something.

It took me 10 years to get here...I have an BA in Philosophy, and MA and most of a PhD in English

I mean, not to pick on ya, but you kind of took a pretty big career detour (I too spent a long ass time in academia, but it was at least in my current field).

Within my circle of climbing friends, I can count half a dozen (mid 20's to mid 30's) that recently (within the last 1-4 years) switched careers to software (after going thru an accelerated program). Not all of them are climbing as much as they used to, but all of them are in a much better financial situations (all homeowners in the front range, enough said).

Of course, that's not to say OP would be wise to do the same. After all, we're in a different economic situation and the entry programming market may be a lot more saturated. It seemed not long ago many climbers made a career switch to nursing.

Nursing is another possible field.  Many variations of the job, generally high need. 

Cindy wrote: Nursing is another possible field.  Many variations of the job, generally high need. 

I agree. Great pay. I work 13 shifts a month and go on week long trips with out using PTO regularly. I can work anywhere I want.  It has also given me a lot of experience treating various injuries which has been handy over the years. 

Just become a data scientist and work remotely, you'll need a Master in Statistics and a strong background in programming. $120K Median Salary and plenty of growth in the field. 

I do software and I can't imagine a better career to compliment a passion for climbing. Remote work, flexible hours, great pay, job security (even in these covid times), and the work itself is engaging and fun if you find a good fit and are doing it for more than the lifestyle it affords and paycheck. 

I got my IRATA and do window cleaning.  I make good coin and work when I want to.   Every major city in the world will hire you.
And I hang on ropes over 1000 hours a year.  

Franco McClimber wrote: Every major city in the world will hire you.  

I only speak for myself but the last thing I want to do is spend significant time in the major cities of the world and be dependent on working in them

I think school teachers have the best schedule, long breaks, snow days, all summer off!

Pip Hokr wrote: Hello,

I am graduating college this June and am currently planning on going to coding bootcamp in Denver (to move to CO). 

What was your college major? 

I don't know what coding bootcamp is, but I would expect any company needing software developers would hire folks with at least a 4 year degree in that field.

Software here.

Well... I mean it kinda depends what exactly you do. I don't have a particularly good job from a strictly climbing perspective - it's software but within a tech company that builds hardware (microscopes). Yes it's relatively flexible, but I don't have 8 weeks holidays and at the end of the week I still have to work 40 hours, more or less 8/9 to 4/5pm, more or less Mon-Fri...

Of course you could go the remote route, if you do soft. I've worked remote/field for a number of years (humanitarian, so partly in the field way out there, partly remote stuff from where ever the rest of time). Remote work, I mean long stretch of 100% remote work, your biggest challenge is going to keep motivation up in order to be productive. In the long run. You sometimes feel, after a while, that you're just sending emails & putting stuff up while never really having any idea if there's any concrete results from all that in the real world. Being remote makes it hard to get feedback, to actually see stuff evolving etc. The flexibility is nice, but it's not all gardens & roses. There's something nice about having an actual workplace with some actual people. I also can't help but to feel that when you're remote, you tend to be given 2nd priority, which can make work difficult (depends on context, employer, clients, etc.). Also be aware - remote workers do not necessarily get side benefits (like HC for you guys in the US, or EI, pension etc.). If shit hits the fan, you may be among the first to go. It's just easier to send an email telling someone they don't have a job anymore than it is to tell people to their face. Depends how secure/insecure you are in life about these things I guess.

The main benefit I see about software/TI related stuff is that it's probably a safer spot in the job market in general. MOslty easy to find a job, so if you're going to alternet gigs & gap years, this isn't a bad strategy.

I've also considered guiding, back in the days. I ended not doing so. Main reason was that, as far as I understood from people going that route, when you're guiding you're not climbing - you're guiding. So guiding in order to climb is not the best reason to get into that field, apparently.

"the entry programming market may be a lot more saturated"

I'm going to guess yes on this. The state of the economy going forward is anyone's guess but I would be concerned about "coding bootcamp" being enough to set you up in the next six months. The good times are over for quite a while.

reboot wrote: 

I mean, not to pick on ya, but you kind of took a pretty big career detour (I too spent a long ass time in academia, but it was at least in my current field).

Within my circle of climbing friends, I can count half a dozen (mid 20's to mid 30's) that recently (within the last 1-4 years) switched careers to software (after going thru an accelerated program). Not all of them are climbing as much as they used to, but all of them are in a much better financial situations (all homeowners in the front range, enough said).

Of course, that's not to say OP would be wise to do the same. After all, we're in a different economic situation and the entry programming market may be a lot more saturated. It seemed not long ago many climbers made a career switch to nursing.

Well, fair enough... my experience is unique to me.

But I transitioned into this work in my very early 30s, so while things change (they are certainly all up in the air) I dunno if I am as far off from your friends as you might think.

The front-range tech scene is quite a good place, as was Austin, but most of the places I was looking at to work required a commute from a place I could afford to a downtown I couldn't afford to live in, which meant that I'd be working 45hr/week + 12 hr of commuting.

The pay is good, but the time sucks.  I guess my point is that if you're not into it, there are easier ways of making money, starting a personal small biz is just one of the more flexible ways of working.

And programming is tough as a long term career, if just because you have to continually learn new tech, and most folks in this profession have to continually learn new things.  That's why I ditched my CS degree in the late 90s and tried to make a go of academia.  But as it stands, I like learning a whole new technology every 2 years or so :D

Frits'z point about loans is also relevent.  If I didn't owe on my PhD, I'd be able to afford to play music professionally :D

Ah yes... the age old work / life balance question.

The most successful climbers I know usually work in the tech field either programing or they started their own tech / engineering company and eventually sold it. I have no idea how to do this, I just know its possible. There are those smart folks out there who where able to basically retire in their late twenties / early thirties and live in their vans on a never-ending climbing road trip off of investments / passive income (almost all of these folks seem to come from California).

My answer to this question was to become a guide. This is a very difficult path (mostly financially) but does have its perks. I spent most of my twenties living seasonally out of a tent / car in the summer and finding cheap rooms to rent in the winter. My "professional development" was to take month long climbing trips to places like Yosemite and Red Rocks. After 11 years of climbing the guiding ladder and investing about 50k into AMGA courses I finally made what could be called a middle class income and climb 200-250 days per year, but mostly for work and usually not objectives that are personally fulfilling. Still way more fun then sitting in an an office though.

If climbing hard is your desire, I honestly think getting a good paying tech job with flexible hours or the ability to work remotely is probably best path. Hire a good coach - most non pro 5.13-5.14 climbers out there only train / climb 2-3 days per week.

If you want to be an "endurance climber" (mountaineering, alpinism, big walls and such) then having a physically demanding seasonal job is probably the easiest way to build up that kind of stamina. Save up and dirt bag during the off season. There is a reason why lots of cutting edge alpinists either work as guides or fire fighters or carpenters or lumberjacks.

Just a few observations from 20+ years of trying to answer that question myself.

Peter Beal wrote: "the entry programming market may be a lot more saturated"

I'm going to guess yes on this. The state of the economy going forward is anyone's guess but I would be concerned about "coding bootcamp" being enough to set you up in the next six months. The good times are over for quite a while.

Probably. Though my guess is that such an effect would take a while.

Training & experience still matters. If you don't have a decent tech lead for your projects, you're unlikely to hire a self-taught programmer unless you have significant proof of worth, from a technical perspective. If you're only trying to fill a few holes in an otherwise solid team, then yes, some dude boasting a booth camp with some sort of portfolio and other non-coding relevant experiences may do the trick.

I believe that what you are describing will indeed have an impact on the market, but I doubt it'll be immediate. The real effects, as far as I am concerned, are that over time these self-taught/boot camp people will, in some cases, persist in the industry and become truly competent programmers, with proven resumes and references. At that point it won't matter much where they came from, they'll be just as competitive from an employer's perspective as some dude with a degree and/or master. But that will take time. There are reasons why a degree takes 3 years and master 2. While you can take different paths to get to a similar level of competence, you cannot just replace all that time with 6 months.

The other comment I would have on that is that while self-learning has its place and can be effective, it tends to NOT be super effective below a certain level of competency. When you're new to a field, you just don't really what it worth learning and what isn't really. For all its flaws, higher education does that for you to some extent and has inputs from the job markets that individuals, on average, don't have.