Bivy sacks

When sleeping on a wall do you bring a bivy bag?  If I have a ledge and fly do I still need a bivy bag too?  How often do u use or bring a bivy bag when you are sleeping on a natural ledge?  I figured obviously do your homework on weather... but it can be unpredictable. 

publications.americanalpine…

Damn Hson, that was a good read and reminder.

Hson P wrote: publications.americanalpine…

Holy shit...

In my last 20 El Cap ascents the weather has changed for the worse 1/3 of the time. I have spent more then 20 nights under my fly.

Once your gear is wet, it will stay wet, it won’t dry out. Once your gear is wet (I’m talking clothing and bad weather gear) no matter how good it is, it has lost a little bit of it‘s ability to protect you.

You will experience condensation in your fly, that condensation will rain down onto everything, wetting everything a little bit. Your fly might leak a little bit. You might get a little bit wet going out to get something out of the haul bags. You might spill a water bottle. Etc. 

 A little bit PLUS a little bit PLUS a little bit EQUALS a lot.

I’m an old guy, I don’t do these walls to prove I’m badass, I want to have fun, I want to be comfortable, I want to be warm. I don’t like being cold and certainly don’t want to freeze to death.

I once put all my emergency clothing/gear and my bivy sac in a bag and weighed it.

fleece socks
fleece pants
rain pants
numerous upper body layers
rain coat
fleece cap
fleece gloves
bivy sack

less than 5 pounds.

Mark Hudon wrote: In my last 20 El Cap ascents the weather has changed for the worse 1/3 of the time. I have spent more then 20 nights under my fly.

Once your gear is wet, it will stay wet, it won’t dry out. Once your gear is wet (I’m talking clothing and bad weather gear) no matter how good it is, it has lost a little bit of it‘s ability to protect you.

You will experience condensation in your fly, that condensation will rain down onto everything, wetting everything a little bit. Your fly might leak a little bit. You might get a little bit wet going out to get something out of the haul bags. You might spill a water bottle. Etc.

 A little bit PLUS a little bit PLUS a little bit EQUALS a lot.

I’m an old guy, I don’t do these walls to prove I’m badass, I want to have fun, I want to be comfortable, I want to be warm. I don’t like being cold and certainly don’t want to freeze to death.

I once put all my emergency clothing/gear and my bivy sac in a bag and weighed it.

fleece socks
fleece pants
rain pants
numerous upper body layers
rain coat
fleece cap
fleece gloves
bivy sack

less than 5 pounds.

Thanks mark.  Your responses are always very useful to the sport and to keeping people safe

Hson P wrote: publications.americanalpine…

Serious shit... makes you take a step back and re evaluate your plans to make sure you are 110% ready with the proper gear for survival.   I know I am taking my planning/ training seriously, but now I realize I should do more survival training just incase shit goes down I'd rather be knowledgeable 

Alex Ghiggeri wrote:

Serious shit... makes you take a step back and re evaluate your plans to make sure you are 110% ready with the proper gear for survival.   I know I am taking my planning/ training seriously, but now I realize I should do more survival training just incase shit goes down I'd rather be knowledgeable 

I know, that gave me the serious chills. (No pun intended).

publications.americanalpine…

Zay Ban wrote: publications.americanalpine…

"Moretti came up around midnight, making nine on the ledge. He was aware that the outlook was grim, but he was calm; he said that he couldn’t stay below by himself anymore because he didn’t want to die alone."

Heavy shit.

Hson P wrote: publications.americanalpine…

I think it was Erickson who was also stuck up on Mescalito during the storms also last Spring? I heard he and partner summited after like 17 days or something crazy like that.

Mark Hudon wrote: In my last 20 El Cap ascents the weather has changed for the worse 1/3 of the time. I have spent more then 20 nights under my fly.

I’ve spent over 40  nights on El Cap- and I have never deployed my fly for rain.. not once
Guess I’ve been lucky.. 
I have also never left the ground without a Bivy Sack, Synthetic bag, and seam sealed rain fly.. plus a nearly identical clothing inventory as Hudon posted above. 

Quinn Hatfield wrote: I’ve spent over 40  nights on El Cap- and I have never deployed my fly for rain.. not once
Guess I’ve been lucky.. 
I have also never left the ground without a Bivy Sack, Synthetic bag, and seam sealed rain fly.. plus a nearly identical clothing inventory as Hudon posted above. 

So no matter the weather... even if its supposed to be a week of sunny hot days and clear nights.  I should always be prepared with the said list of items that you and mark both bring as a survival kit.  Or do you you guys chance it sometimes if the weather window looks superb?   I feel like I'd be ok hauling hauling extra weight if it's to keep me alive if shit hits the fan!

I always bring a gore-tex bivy sack. In the warmer months I only bring it, not a sleeping bag, and just wear my warm clothes/hat if needed; it's waterproof if needed vs. a sleeping bag which will get soaked. In colder weather it makes a sleeping bag significantly warmer and waterproof.

If the weather looks freakin perfect as far as the eye can see and I’m going up on a route that I know is going to flow well, I’ll skimp a little bit.

BUT

People have frozen to death in June and have suffered heatstroke in November in The Valley.

Ross Goldberg wrote:

I think it was Erickson who was also stuck up on Mescalito during the storms also last Spring? I heard he and partner summited after like 17 days or something crazy like that.

Yea, left everything at the summit and ran down with minimal gear.

He looked like a beaten dog when he got down

Come to think of it ... He always looks like that.

Alex Ghiggeri wrote:

So no matter the weather... even if its supposed to be a week of sunny hot days and clear nights.  I should always be prepared with the said list of items that you and mark both bring as a survival kit.  Or do you you guys chance it sometimes if the weather window looks superb?   I feel like I'd be ok hauling hauling extra weight if it's to keep me alive if shit hits the fan!

Yes. 

• The synthetic bag is a requirement anytime you leave the ground and don't have a fixed lines to the ground. If you need to be rescued due to unexpected weather and you're rocking a down bag, you may. be charged for the price of the rescue for creating an unsafe situation. 
• The rain fly is important because in the event of the unexpected weather, you can bring your gear inside to keep it dry, thus allowing you to get started faster and move more quickly should there be a break in the weather to make a dash for the summit.
• The bivy sack is important because if you're pinned down in a storm for more than a day, it will keep you relatively dry from the constant dripping of the condensation as you wait out the storm.

what type of bivy sacks are you guys using?

something water resistant like the SOL escape/escape pro bivvy or something with a membrane like gore-tex/pertrex shield?

ThomasR wrote: what type of bivy sacks are you guys using?

something water resistant like the SOL escape/escape pro bivvy or something with a membrane like gore-tex/pertrex shield?

I have a SOL thermal bivy which I used once to wait out a passing rain/wind storm curled up on a ledge.  I ended up hanging out (and even got a nap in) for about 2-3 hours. The thing packs down so small, it's great to have in your tag bag.  A bonus for this particular model is that the velcro closure easily accommodates your tie-in.  I wouldn't want to spend more than a night in the thing though.

If I were spending days holed up in a drippy portaledge (which I thankfully haven't had to do yet), I would want a real-deal bivy sack, like my BD Big Wall Hooped Bivy sack.  Though spendy, the waterproof integrated tie-in is cool and the large size lets you keep more of your stuff inside and "dry."

ThomasR wrote: what type of bivy sacks are you guys using?

something water resistant like the SOL escape/escape pro bivvy or something with a membrane like gore-tex/pertrex shield?

Are you still talking about wall climbing or just bivouac sacks in general?

The SOL things are for emergencies on casual day climbs IMO, but I'm no hardened alpinist. They're also sized for children.

jdejace wrote:

Are you still talking about wall climbing or just bivouac sacks in general?

The SOL things are for emergencies on casual day climbs IMO, but I'm no hardened alpinist. They're also sized for children.

I'm speaking of wall climbing with a ledge and fly. I always have the SOL as an emergency bivy in my pack just in case. Didn't bring a bivy bag on the nose this fall, didn't even think about it, but definitely  looking at one for next time after reading this thread. Just wanted to see what type was recommended