Ordered a Valley Giant 9...

Billcoe wrote:

Valley Giants are the strongest big cam made. That's why people wait a year (or longer) to get one. Erick from Merlin is very responsible and excellently lightweight. I wonder if BD tested those two against their 7 and 8, how they would fare, because the strength rating on those sucks hard...especially the BD #8, 5 KN to failure? That's a reminder that you need to have something to back it up everytime you place one and want to take a hang. They need to change their motto to "The leader must not fall".

Bill, you may want to look into the failure modes and testing details of the 7 & 8 that led to those ratings, and also the conversion of kN to lbs. Aid climbers would be in some trouble if every piece they weighted needed to support 5kN or be directly backed up. As I mentioned above, I hung on one of the worst looking cam placements I've ever seen and the #7 held strong. No need to bring in the theatrics. The VGs and Merlins aren't even certified. 

Let’s not get off topic here. I’m still without a vg9!

I have emailed Tom 3 times last week regarding a shipping address change. No answer yet. If I don't get a reply by the end of the march I'm planning to bump it up to daily emails. 

How would COVID prevent him from assembling and shipping cams?

FrankPS wrote:

How would COVID prevent him from assembling and shipping cams?

"COVID" has become the excuse du jour, especially amongst the kieschegeoisie.

If you’ve ever met Tom, you’d know he’s very serious...I truly believe he’s probably holed up.

Praise be! This is wonderful news, thanks!

Cairn War Machine wrote:

 he's alive!

FAKE NEWS! There’s no date on that. I want to see the LONG FORM e-mail.

June H wrote:

FAKE NEWS! There’s no date on that. I want to see the LONG FORM e-mail.

If an email shows a time it means it was sent that day.

June H wrote:

FAKE NEWS! There’s no date on that. I want to see the LONG FORM e-mail.

Better? 

Tal M wrote:

Bill, you may want to look into the failure modes and testing details of the 7 & 8 that led to those ratings, and also the conversion of kN to lbs. Aid climbers would be in some trouble if every piece they weighted needed to support 5kN or be directly backed up. As I mentioned above, I hung on one of the worst looking cam placements I've ever seen and the #7 held strong. No need to bring in the theatrics. The VGs and Merlins aren't even certified. 

Uhh, no way man, I'm all about the theatrics!  Tom and Erik have both tested their cams extensively. The question is what the testing modality is/was vs BD. Several good discourse threads on Supertopo back in the day, here's one: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2720258&tn=0&mr=0.. Tom Kasper posts as Tom and Erik posts as Edavidso. Here's a tom quote (hmmmedit, not showing up so I shortened it  up :"What I have found,........

Big cams have a peculiar failure mechanism, wherein the lobes buckle sideways, deform into an arc, and fail due to lateral instability. This failure mode is difficult to model accurately with a FEA computer program, and not just because the configuration of the cam itself changes under increasing load. Surprisingly large lateral forces are applied to the lobes, even in a parallel-walled steel testing frame, and these lateral forces increase rapidly and non-linearly with increasing load. Irregular rock surfaces induce even more severe lateral forces on the lobes, which makes big cams considerably weaker in the field than in the laboratory.

Here is a photo of a what a Valley Giant VG9 (225mm maximum usable span) cam looks like after sustaining a 5500+ lb. (25 kN) load in a steel box testing frame. The lobes buckled and rolled on the axle until the cam pulled out of the 8-inch (200mm) frame.

My point is that if you can 100% control the loading conditions of lightweight big cams, then there is no reason to not use them. But, if you are potentially facing awkward placements, unusual loading, bailing down unfamiliar terrain, or otherwise are unable to completely control how you will use your big cams, the significant extra strength of Valley Giant cams would seem to make more sense. "

Next on the list. Glad you didn't get it and die but reading skills much Tom? "That killed 29 million worldwide" you note.... LOL. 29 million is the infection number not the amount of deaths, the infection number. The death rate is high enough that there is no need to exaggerate.  https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/coronavirus/?id=72994983 quote: 

"A pandemic of the novel coronavirus has now killed more than 924,000 people worldwide.   Over 29 million people across the globe have been diagnosed with COVID-19, the disease caused by the new respiratory virus, according to data compiled by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering at Johns Hopkins University. The criteria for diagnosis -- through clinical means or a lab test -- has varied from country-to-country. "

Just an update that I'm now commemorating 2 years since I ordered a VG9 from Thomas. And NO!, I have yet to receive it or get any correspondence from him (14 months ago- ie before Covid-  he was on the way to the "Post Office" to "send" it to me. 

It seems like buying a VG is like type 2 fun, lots of bitching and moaning while waiting the 18 months plus to receive one, but once you do you bend over backward swearing how great they are and worth the wait.  

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

It seems like buying a VG is like type 2 fun, lots of bitching and moaning while waiting the 18 months plus to receive one, but once you do you bend over backward swearing how great they are and worth the wait.  

more like, "worth the weight"

Finally heard back from Tom. Similar response: He has all the materials, but can't get to the shop. Honestly though, I don't know what that means, and it's been 1.5 years. a     

That’s nuts.   I’d say screw it and demand my money back but I’d be skeptical he could get to the post office to get your check in the mail.  

The Valley Giant cams were originally conceived to be strong, stable, reliable and user-friendly off width crack cams. Rather than simply enlarge an existing cam, the design process started with a completely blank sheet of paper.
But poor customer service. My cam came a couple months late with no replies until the piece was shipped. Friends of mine have gone 6 to 9 months since purchase with minimal or no responses.

Part Leah wrote:

The Valley Giant cams were originally conceived to be strong, stable, reliable and user-friendly off width crack cams. Rather than simply enlarge an existing cam, the design process started with a completely blank sheet of paper.
But poor customer service. My cam came a couple months late with no replies until the piece was shipped. Friends of mine have gone 6 to 9 months since purchase with minimal or no responses.

I am sensing a trend here.

I can’t believe people still whine about it. It’s like they didn’t do their research before sending payment.