Best assisted belay device

Hi, I'm after a device to make life with the less able (might be beginners, might be experienced but held few real unexpected trad falls (so untested), might have suffered a medical event, etc.) a little bit safer for me on lead. As I don't want to add confusion and additional learning and for some would like to build transferable skills, I'm not after using a grigri-like device, but rather something that mimics plate-style belaying.

I'm particularly interested to hear from those that have used a variety of such devices, rather than comments of the "I own a Revo, I like it" type, so those containing comparisons, or comments of when a particular device is poor, unsafe or confusing for the user when belaying of lowering.

Thanks

Glad to see that people are finally realizing how dangerous the Gri is. Good on you!

I use the Smart Alpine. I like it.

my wife and I started using the BD Pilot for single pitch. It pays smooth, locks down and releases easily.  With a big weight difference between us, it gives me some added security. I also dont mind hang-doggin a little more knowing she doesn't have to clamp the rope.

Yes, we have used a gri-gri plenty,  there are some nice benefits in certain situations. But it seems the gri-gri grabs the rope at the exact times I NEED a clean pay (read: more tense/demanding situations seem to correlate with getting short-roped). Ive never had that issue with the Pilot and I bet she has caught 2 dozen spontaneous falls (trad and sport) in the past 2 years of use.

I strongly recommend the Alpine Up from climbing technologies.  I have used it for more than 7 years and have tried several other devices on the market including the smart alpine and all the variations of the jul.  A long term climbing partner has a medical condition that could potentially cause seizures so i was interested in failsafe operation.  Its main drawbacks are that it is heavy, bulky and too much friction in autoblock mode.  BTW i use an 8.7 mm single or 8 mm twins.

My requirements included handling 2 ropes for use with twin ropes or use with singles.
If you want a single rope device i would consider the click up or the new BD device although I have not used any of the single rope devices.

The device with the closest comparison to an ATC is the gigijul.  I really wanted to like this device and it works well and i think generates adequate braking force in a severe fall but it has 8 ways to load the rope only 2 of which are correct although all 8 work.  The 6 wrong ways either feed poorly or reduce braking force.  The micro and mega jul do not generate enough braking force.  The smart alpine is pretty good but does not lock as well as the alpine up.  The new single rope smart looks to have fixed that problem and I would consider it for a single line device.

I think anything in the Jul 2/Pilot/Smart department will suit you just fine.  I use a MegaJul with a HMS Bulletproof carabiner (used to use the steel Bruce) and couldn't be happier, though it's best with ropes in the 9.8-or-lower range. I've caught hundreds and hundreds of lead falls with it, and have never had any issues with slippage or creep.

As a climbing gym manager, I have acquired a number for devices for staff education and my personal choice is the BD Pilot. It is lightweight, intuitive, and is an easy transfer from an ATC, or even as a starter device. Has a wide mouth, unlike some of the Jul devices, has a channel that the rope runs through on lower, unlike the Juls, and probably gives the softest catch of the bunch as it allows a very slight amount of slippage. So, it is not a hands free device by any means (of course none of them are). The Click-Ups are cool too, and have a nice progress capture toproping mode when "clicked." But those devices are definitely less intuitive for the inexperienced. Was not impressed with the Revo - it failed to lock up on our first test of it, with a less experienced belayer. Mammut deviecs are fine too, but a little bulkier. If you're just looking for a solid belay device without the rappel/guide mode features, the Pilot does it solid!

Josh Giblin 1973 wrote: As a climbing gym manager, I have acquired a number for devices for staff education and my personal choice is the BD Pilot. It is lightweight, intuitive, and is an easy transfer from an ATC, or even as a starter device. Has a wide mouth, unlike some of the Jul devices, has a channel that the rope runs through on lower, unlike the Juls, and probably gives the softest catch of the bunch as it allows a very slight amount of slippage. So, it is not a hands free device by any means (of course none of them are). The Click-Ups are cool too, and have a nice progress capture toproping mode when "clicked." But those devices are definitely less intuitive for the inexperienced. Was not impressed with the Revo - it failed to lock up on our first test of it, with a less experienced belayer. Mammut deviecs are fine too, but a little bulkier. If you're just looking for a solid belay device without the rappel/guide mode features, the Pilot does it solid!

How did the Revo not lock up? None of the testing has ever shown failure of the mechanism and there haven't been any reports I've seen

I have used an Alpine Up since 2012 on a series of Mammut Genesis 8.5 double ropes.  My only complaint is that it is too grabby on the start of a free hanging rappel if you weigh 150.  Some double ropes do not cause this, and I have found an easy workaround (not the one in the manual).

Being able to do double rope raps on the same device is a plus, and is extremely secure with the autolocking mode (and eliminates the need for a rappel backup for your less experienced partners).

I would be leery of handing someone a Revo, in spite of its additional security feature.  It has the least friction of any device I have used.  I would think many would find it intimidating on a single line rappel.

1 vote for the Click Up. Very similar feeding style to a tube belay device, plus the locking feature which works as well as a grigri. The only thing you'd need to teach is how to release the locked rope, which is pretty intuitive and kinda similar to how you would release a pilot or jul. Also, the main wear point is the carabiner, which is easy to replace. Of course this is for single rope only.

I use the smart 2.0 easy to learn for top rope lead belaying takes a little practice

Jim Titt wrote:

How did the Revo not lock up? None of the testing has ever shown failure of the mechanism and there haven't been any reports I've seen

Can't say for sure what happened, but when I took my fall from a few clips up, the belayer's hand got pulled in to the device. It may be completely user error for all I know, perhaps I hadn't picked up enough speed for it to kick in? But that negative first experience, combined with a tricky loading procedure and no additional features, gave me no reason to continue to investigate its usefulness.

Josh Giblin 1973 wrote:

Can't say for sure what happened, but when I took my fall from a few clips up, the belayer's hand got pulled in to the device. It may be completely user error for all I know, perhaps I hadn't picked up enough speed for it to kick in? But that negative first experience, combined with a tricky loading procedure and no additional features, gave me no reason to continue to investigate its usefulness.

Hmmmmmm... perhaps lab "testing" isn't the be all and all for gear after all. Perhaps usability in a real-world setting comes into play? 

If the revo does reliably lockup at 4m/s, but suppose your belayers hand or some other friction stopped it from reaching that speed, in perfect physics land that would be about as much energy for your body to absorb as free falling 0.8m [*]. Might be that with those sort of impact energies not many people would get hurt, and therefore not many accident reports get filled.

Since the whole aim of this belay device enterprise is to not get hurt, maybe Josh's anecdote isn't as negative for the revo as it could be, I presume he would have mentioned if his legs were broken or had some other notable injury(?).

^Obviously all IMHO/conjecturing.

David's looking to find which device might be safer given an infirm belayer, earlier with my grigri thread I was looking for the answer to an easier question, given an average belayer which device is safer.
I still haven't made my mind up about the answer to that easier question, though Jim's input that training and practice was the paramount concern was compelling.

[*]  mgh = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 \\ \frac{v^2}{2g} = 0.81

Learning to belay with a grigri is an essential climbing skill nowadays. Might as well rip the band aid off. Not like its any harder than an atc

Josh Giblin 1973 wrote:

Can't say for sure what happened, but when I took my fall from a few clips up, the belayer's hand got pulled in to the device. It may be completely user error for all I know, perhaps I hadn't picked up enough speed for it to kick in? But that negative first experience, combined with a tricky loading procedure and no additional features, gave me no reason to continue to investigate its usefulness.

Sounds like the belayer was too weak or not prepared, the Revo isn't the most powerful of devices so the belayer has to do more than usual. The Revo should never actually lock, if it does it means the belayer has made a catastrophic error.

Was at a gym this past summer during an event with a Wild Country booth and we demo’d a Revo with a WC rep on a TR, gym wasn’t allowing leading due to extra traffic with event so that’s all we got to try.  He had me belay and catch a fall hands free, with him backed up about 15 feet down the line. We traded I took the same fall and it was very soft we had slack on the climber side and belayer side so the friction from the wrapped TR was somewhat reduced and it seemed to lock up pretty quick, only a few feet went through the device. Gym employee quickly shut us down because they had fixed gri gri’s on the TR’s but I was impressed.

My only complaint with this vs Gri Gri, or BD Pilot style device is that you have to manually lock off the switch to have device grab rope and I couldn’t figure this out when I used it, but my partner did this easily.  

Rappelling doesn’t look as intuitive either, would be interested to see if you could jug a line with this since it is basically a pulley, gri gri Has so many uses that it really is an advantage. 

The Revo is clearly the device you are looking for. It behaves exactly like a plate until the inertial lock kicks in, which only happens when the belayer's brake hand fails to catch the falling climber. It will not lock while your belayer is scrambling to feed you slack for a clip. Clutching it in a panic will not override the safety mechanism. It cannot be loaded backwards.

Anyone have experience with the Trango Vergo.  I've never used one but reportedly it feeds rope out like an ATC and much better than holding down the cam on a GriGri.

Brian wrote: Anyone have experience with the Trango Vergo.  I've never used one but reportedly it feeds rope out like an ATC and much better than holding down the cam on a GriGri.

I use one. In my opinion, if feeds better than ATC. If you desire to talk about Trango Vergo, there are a couple of threads here on mproj.

amarius wrote:

I use one. In my opinion, if feeds better than ATC. If you desire to talk about Trango Vergo, there are a couple of threads here on mproj.

But, this thread is about geometry based ABDs, let's stick to that topic.

Sorry I thought it "mimics plate-style belaying" so would be an option especially if it "feeds better than ATC."

Troll in the Dungeon ! wrote: Learning to belay with a grigri is an essential climbing skill nowadays. Might as well rip the band aid off. Not like its any harder than an atc

Is it really? I've never used one. I've never had a climbing partner who used one. They provide a benefit for sure, but the cost is pretty steep and you can get the same benefit from a mammut smart or bd pilot for a quarter of the price. I have a mammut smart alpine, which is even better for rappel, which I got for $25 a couple years ago.