Portaledge which one is the right choice

So I'm in the market for a ledge.  WAS going to Yosemite next month but that is in limbo....  but not gonna stop training (at home) or give up on the dream.  The parks will reopen! Soon hopefully... anyways

There's a lot out there, where do I begin
First, is there any reason for a single portaledge?  Usually you bring a partner they need a spot to sleep right?  Can 2 single ledges join together? Or stack like bunks?  Or do u buy a single and expect that most big wallers have their own single too?

• Companies:  everyone knows that BD has THE ledge thanks to the many recent climbing movies.  But recently found out they are the heaviest.   There are lots of others!  Metolius, A5, runout customs, the new g7s!  I just saw a few others from smaller companies in a recent post... I think one was d7?   The other was a old school trad dads company, cant remember the name at the moment but it was very recognizable in the climbing community... what's the best?
• Do you like the ledges that have the divider at an angle or straight down the middle?  
• What is the safest ledge
• Which is the easiest to set up 
• Most durable setup
• What is the best bang for the buck 
• Do you need the fly always?? Do u always bring it with you?  Also do you need a bivy sack for emergencies as well as the fly?
• Thoughts on buying a used ledge vs a new one?

So yea on that last question if you have a ledge for sale hit me up.  But please dont break the bank on me... unemployed chef here (thanks US government) .  Got my vacation time off but cant climb!

A5/D4 Alpine Double is basically the standard though they may be a little tricky to find at the moment. Single ledges are great for soloing. 

Things have likely changed in the last ten years, but at that time the Fish seemed to be the easiest to set up. Always wished I would have been patient and bought one as they take a couple months to make, but were the same price. Where the cromoly steel fittings on the Fish just slide right in, the BD fittings are tough. The BD is super heavy and sucks to set up.

Nowadays, I think I’d buy the inflatable one if I were in the market. Better yet, just sleep on natural ledges or do it in a push. 

I have a Runout Customs Double, actually it's their Baffin Ledge with is just an extra large double and I have a D4 Trapezium.  Customs is super comfortable and fairly easy to set up and breakdown. For multi day walls its the way to go.  For one or two night walls I like Trapezium, super easy set up like about a minute.  The downside is breaking it down and getting it into its original bag, its not intuitive. Practice makes perfect but I'm too impatient to practice and its easier to complain about it than to actually spend the time and learn to break it down correctly.  I ended up just getting a larger haul bag for it.  

I'd check out D4 https://bigwallgear.com/ , John invented the portaledge and is the only person I know of to make one design and the completely change it. That kind of deep knowledge and innovation probably bodes well for his products.

Alex Ghiggeri wrote: There's a lot out there, where do I begin
First, is there any reason for a single portaledge?  Usually you bring a partner they need a spot to sleep right?  Can 2 single ledges join together? Or stack like bunks?  Or do u buy a single and expect that most big wallers have their own single too?

Depends. If you're running two older A5 singles or to G7 Pod inflatable ledges then two of them are lighter or similar in weight compared to a Bdel or Metolius double (admittedly I'm fudging the numbers here because I'm never going to use one of those heavy beasts of a double and the D4 double and Runout Customs doubles are going to be lighter than two singles, but hey, I've got a single-ledge agenda to enforce here). I usually want to use two singles because you have more space to do your thing and more importantly, there's nothing worse than waking up in the middle of the night and having to use the restroom and knowing you're going to wake your partner. Or even just if one of you is a sleeper that rolls around a lot or one of you snores, the separation and distance of two singles is awesome. I solo a lot and have found that when with a partner, it's an extra arrow in your quiver to be able to reach the end of the day and if I've still got gas in my tank then my partner can bed down and sleep while I put up the next pitch. Then when I come back down, I won't wake my partner with my own eating and sleeping prep.

The only "issue" with two singles is that you need to be able to set both of them up. It's nice when there's a spread out belay with lots of bolts but sometimes you won't have that so you'll need to be able to either lead up the next pitch a bit to set another anchor for your second ledge or (more likely) use the last placements of the previous pitch for your second ledge anchor. The G7 Pod can be joined horizontally or vertically but you'll more than likely find yourself setting the two ledges up on seperate anchors for reasons stated above.

• Companies:  everyone knows that BD has THE ledge thanks to the many recent climbing movies.  But recently found out they are the heaviest.   There are lots of others!  Metolius, A5, runout customs, the new g7s!  I just saw a few others from smaller companies in a recent post... I think one was d7?   The other was a old school trad dads company, cant remember the name at the moment but it was very recognizable in the climbing community... what's the best?

Here's the ledge makers you're going to find: (My comments are all based upon having owned and used these ledges except for the Metolius. I have a problem and currently own 12 ledges) 

• A5
  • Pros: Light, time tested, and generally perfect in my opinion. You can treat them like a beater car and they keep on going.  The A5 single is my go to ledge and the A5/Northface Alpine Double is my go to if I'm going to use a double ledge. 
  • Cons: You can only find these used as they are no longer made,  but they consistently come up at least once a quarter on eBay and other online marketplaces. They're different dimensions than current ledges so rainflies can be harder to find. (or modify another brand's fly) Those rainflies may also be suspect due to their age so you really need to give it the garden hose test in your yard for at least 30 minutes or so to ensure it's not going to fail you one the wall. The singles show up on eBay every now and then and are relatively cheap compared to newer brands.
• Runout Customs
  • Pros: As bombproof as Black Diamond and Metolius ledges but lighter and better design. No spreader bar. Luke is an amazing craftsman and they're all handmade in the US. Multiple types of designs. 
  • Cons: Expensive, might take longer to get one depending upon what stock Luke has on hand
• D4
  • Pros: Many different types of designs but the main D4 double ledge is what most gravitate towards. Deucey designs great ledges. The more eclectic designs have their place and are light, easy to setup and tear down and pack down small. I wouldn't go with one of those ledges (trapezium, delta2p, octopod) as your only ledge though. American made (though the eclectic designs are New Zealand made but handmade by Deucey so that's still a plus) 
  • Cons: I'm not a fan of the curved edge design but other swear by it.
• G7
  • Pros: Lightest out there. Packs down the smallest. Easiest setup from a free hanging belay. They're insulated so you don't need to bring a sleeping pad saving even more weight and space. Amazing design and my go to ledge for soloing a wall now. 
  • Cons: They're less comfortable the taller you are. I'm 5'8" and I really wouldn't suggest it to anyone 5'10" or taller (My 6' partner hates his) They're also less adjustable than a regular ledge. Not an issue in many situations but can be an issue in tight corners or weirdly angled belays.  They're relatively new so time will prove their durability but I've used them (and flagged them to haul between belays) for about 10 nights so far with no issues. Not American made
• Fish
  • Pros: Also light and well made. Not my go to but I wouldn't balk at using a double on a wall. Not a fan of the older singles and don't know if the design has changed. American made. 
  • Cons: Can take a while to get them depending upon what Fish has going on. I'm not a fan of the porthole design on the rain flies
• Black Diamond
  • Pros: I don't know, I guess they're easy to find? Super bomber if you're going to be hanging out for days in a storm or capsule style climbing I guess. 
  • Cons: Heavy, heavy, heavy for no benefit. I can't stress this enough, heavy ledges are horrible on the approach, when hauling, and most importantly on the descent. Uses that stupid spreader bar. Expensive. I would rather not climb a wall than use a Bdel ledge. Not made in America 
• Metolius
  • Pros: Better than the Black Diamond ledges but I'd still go with any of the others except for Bdel. Same benefits. American made.
  • Cons: Same as Black Diamond Ledge
• Mountaintools(single-point hammock)
  • Pros: It's light and it's a hammock! Oooooowie. Get that old dad cred!
  • Cons: Don't do this to yourself. Stop. Just... no.

• Do you like the ledges that have the divider at an angle or straight down the middle?  

They all are pretty much angled to some extent. It's nice when sleeping head to toe with your partner because you have more room for your upper body and less room for your feet where you don't need the room, not as nice when sleeping head to head (usually more of a couples thing but you do you)

• What is the safest ledge

They're all safe. A5 is going to be less safe only because of their age but you can suss out whether the ledge has life in it still with some experience. The problem is that the question itself is an issue. No ledge is rated as a life supporting device. The safety comes from the climbing rope attached to your anchor and you never, NEVER, spend time hanging in your ledge without being connected to your anchor via your rope.

• Which is the easiest to set up 

If you're on a ledge (even a 6" ledge) they're all pretty easy. If you're at a free hanging belay, a single is always easier than a double ledge. Double ledges with a spreader bar are harder to setup than a double without a spreader bar. The G7 Pod is probably the easiest to setup but can be harder to get situated depending upon the features around the belay. I find the A5 single to be the easiest rigid ledge to setup but that's admittedly because I use that one the most. ALWAYS practice setting up your ledge in a freehanging situation before you head up a wall for your ledge's maiden voyage.

• Most durable setup

I'm confused what this means. Does it mean the most durable ledge with setup meaning the whole ledge and fly etc as a system? They're all durable. People have their questions about the G7 and time will tell but they've only been out for less than a year. A used ledge might be less durable than a new ledge depending upon how it was cared for. people talk a lot about the softgoods wearing down over time but after climbing every weekend in multiple used A5 singles for more than a decade I haven't found this to be the case, YMMV. If your question meant the most durable to setting up and breaking down, that makes no sense.

• What is the best bang for the buck 

In terms of price: A5 single ledge because you buy it used. After that a G7 Pod probably. Then anything with a pro deal. Then FISH.
In terms of value for your dollar: Runout Customs or D4 ledges are quality for the price.

• Do you need the fly always?? Do u always bring it with you?  Also do you need a bivy sack for emergencies as well as the fly?

You're new so yes. ALWAYS bring a fly. When you get some experience and weather a few storms you can begin to make decisions based upon your speed, the forecast, and the route.
Bring a bivy sack IF there's weather on the forecast and you might need to sit it out for a few days. The condensation inside your fly will make everything wet as it drips like rain or your sleeping bag pushes up against the fly as you roll around it in the night, unless you have a bivy sack.

• Thoughts on buying a used ledge vs a new one?

Hard for me to say. I wouldn't suggest buying a used ledge as your first ledge if you can afford a new one. Better to learn on something where you don't have to always question if the issue was the eledge or the condition you got it in. That said, if money is tight, used ledges are the way to go. Find someone with experience to help you judge a ledge you're going to buy if possible. We can usually tell from photos if it'll get you up at least one wall, but caveat emptor.

Russ Walling wrote:

I'm obviously biased, but after FISH, I would go with a used anything, but make sure the fly is cherry.  They are hard to get replacements for and are super pricey if you need a new one, and that's if you can find one.

Plus if you buy from Russ (Russ is FISH) you can get a Snakecharmer while you're at it, one of the best rope bags for walls in the business. Then get some of his Beef Bags, the best for your 2:1 kit. Then get some of his Wall Bags, some of the best wall bags out there. Then get two Doubloons, the rivet hanger you didn't know you needed until you really really do.

I think choice of ledge should be informed by your target routes.  For routes with ledges that are good enough to hang out on but not good enough to sleep on, I can't recommend the G7 enough.  I did the Nose in a party of 3 last year, and we ended up having a double ledge and a prototype G7.  While my partners faffed and struggled to get their cliff cabana together, I was phatty chilling with a sandwich and a doob.  The G7 is super comfortable for sleeping and weighs so little that using it seems like a no-brainer.

However, I'd say the downside of the D7 is that it's somewhat tricky to get into and out of and its not a super stable platform for cooking, sorting gear, etc.  If your target route is continually steep and has no ledges big enough to stand on, I'd recommend a proper portaledge.   This will make it easier to cook, sort gear, stretch, etc., all of which would be tricky (but not impossible) in the G7.

Hey all!

There is also new ledge that was just released!

https://freebirdmountain.com/
https://www.instagram.com/freebird_rd_mountain_equipment/?hl=en
It's described by it's maker as 'somewhere in between a frame ledge and a g7' adding a little bit more weight for a lot more rigidity.

Maybe Nick (the creator) can chime in here or in a new thread detailing more about his new ledge. Either way it looks pretty cool, especially for 1,000$.