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Lost arrow tip tyrolean

Original Post
Alex Ghiggeri · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 110

Please help me understand how you set up the traverse.  Looking at doing the direct route or at least the tip.  Trying to understand the logistics of how you set up the tyrolean traverse off the spire.  From what I understand you can only set it up if you rap into the notch.  

If you climb the entire direct route someone has to set u up a rope into the notch correct? Or try to piggyback off another party ahead on the tip? Otherwise I have to rap to the bottom I believe. 

So let's say I just got rapped into the notch, what's the next step/ entire process to properly and safely executing the tyrolean.  (U can skip the climbing part, I wanna figure that part out myself ;-) please and thank you)

And begin..

Kyle Kamrath · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 10

There are numerous posts, blogs, and videos that describe this. Here's one of them:

http://smileysproject.blogspot.com/2011/05/great-tyrolean-traverse.html?m=1

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,100

Fix a rope on rim. Will be two ropes tied together, must how to pass the knot for the rappel. Can be one rope if it is a 70 meter, but still need a second rope (or a longer rope to have enough slack to get around the spire while climbing) . Rap from the rim to notch with a lead rope. Tie the rap rope to harness as a trailing rope. Once on the tip, with the rap rope, thread the anchor, pull tight and fix. First person goes across continuing to trail rap line. Once at the rim unfix the rap line on the tip. Person on rim resets both ropes so the knot is at the anchor the tip (like a rappel), pull ropes tight and fix both on the rim. Person on tip comes across. Unfix the one rope and pull like one does on rappel.

Note: this does not describe being belayed while doing the traverse which done with the lead rope.

Alex Ghiggeri · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 110

How far is the distance from tip to rim?  Half rope length? The knot is messing with my head on dbl rope set up.  The knot comes to the rim and fixes by the leader?  And I'm guessing there is some sort of bomber tat rap ring chains up there to thread the rope through?

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,100

WAG 120 feet or so from the tip to the rim.. For the last person the knot is at the tip anchors. Think of it as setting up a horizontal rappel from the tip to the rim.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, UT · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 22,419

When I did it with Brutus of Wyde and Em, we fixed a 300 foot rope to the rim, rapped it single to the notch, clipped the end of the 300 footer to my butt, and up we went.

Once on top, we tightened to an optimal slack, fixed the other end briefly so Bruce (who was going first) could cross and attach the other end to the rim (I recall belaying him as well since he was crossing on a single line), removed the block (that we used to fix the other end) and continued the rest of us across.  When done, pulled the rope.

Nice to not pass a knot.

Although, Bruce was not that psyched to cross on the relatively thin 9mm I brought (although it was an NFPA certified static line).

Alex Ghiggeri · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 110
  • New thought about the tyro...  what is the best style or method using your ascenders and ladders when crossing. feet positioning I guess is my thought.... both feet tensioned in the ladders? Or top foot out?  What has worked for those that have done it. 
PRRose · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0
Brian in SLC wrote: When I did it with Brutus of Wyde and Em, we fixed a 300 foot rope to the rim, rapped it single to the notch, clipped the end of the 300 footer to my butt, and up we went.

Once on top, we tightened to an optimal slack, fixed the other end briefly so Bruce (who was going first) could cross and attach the other end to the rim (I recall belaying him as well since he was crossing on a single line), removed the block (that we used to fix the other end) and continued the rest of us across.  When done, pulled the rope.

Nice to not pass a knot.

Although, Bruce was not that psyched to cross on the relatively thin 9mm I brought (although it was an NFPA certified static line).

How does the belay work? If the Tyrolean line were to fail, what keeps the traverser from penduleming back into the Lost Arrow pillar?

Nick Sullens · · Yosemite · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 1,005

If the tyrolean line fails.... you're pink mist mate.

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,100
PRRose wrote:

How does the belay work? If the Tyrolean line were to fail, what keeps the traverser from penduleming back into the Lost Arrow pillar?

The belay works just like another belay. As for if the Tyrollean line were to fail, it depends on where the failure occurs and assuming the person is on belay from the tip. If the failure is between the person and the rim, one big ass whipper. If the failure us between the person and the tip, not much. 

ThomasR · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
PRRose wrote:

How does the belay work? If the Tyrolean line were to fail, what keeps the traverser from penduleming back into the Lost Arrow pillar?

depends on which side fails, it its on the side towards the spire, the climber is probly fine as he is held by the line from the rim as well as the belay

if the side towards the rim fails, then the answer is nothing
Ryan Huetter · · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 395

If you plan on only doing the tip, then follow advice above. Not too hard, just a bit of logistics and understanding that you are only setting up a horizontal rappel after all. It's a fun day out, a bit of a party trick, and a really cool photo op as long as you don't go first!

If the Direct is what you're after, which is more involved, and super quality moderate aid climbing, then I wouldn't bother with the traverse. You'll have to hike to the top, toss your lines in (and make sure they are definitely secured in the notch), fix a note to them so that nobody steals them, then walk down, climb the route and hope to hell they are still there. Or Option B, climb the Direct, leave your bags on the Second Error Ledge, climb to the top and rap back down. No shenanigans required. I've done the tip a few times and the Direct once, and don't think I'd both trying to combine the two if I had the choice.

As for the tyro, a mini-trax on the belay loop and a jumar above works like a charm.

Rob Dillon · · Tamarisk Clearing · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 738

Hoots!

We got a friend to fix a rope for us while we were coming up the Direct (this is a good friend to have). Recommended method if you can finagle that one. 

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,100
ThomasR wrote:

depends on which side fails, it its on the side towards the spire, the climber is probly fine as he is held by the line from the rim as well as the belay

if the side towards the rim fails, then the answer is nothing

Might re-think your last statement. If the rim side fails and the person is belayed from the tip that means the anchor for both the belay and the Tyrollean are on the tip. That is going turn into a huge ass pendulumn whipper.

ThomasR · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Allen Sanderson wrote:

Might re-think your last statement. If the rim side fails and the person is belayed from the tip that means the anchor for both the belay and the Tyrollean are on the tip. That is going turn into a huge ass pendulumn whipper.

i think we are in agreement actually. I was referencing an earlier post asking "If the Tyrolean line were to fail, what keeps the traverser from penduleming back into the Lost Arrow pillar?" My answer is that nothing will stop the climber from swinging back into the pillar if the rim side fails, not nothing would happen. Possible poor phrasing on my part. But that would be a nasty ride, makes me cringe thinking about it

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

About the belay.....other than when initially weighting the tyrolean, the belay is primarily psychological. Consider that the anchors on the tip are solid bolts and the anchor on the rim is a big ass tree. The only way any of this can fail is if someone screwed up in rigging the traverse line. Once it's weighted the chances of any failure drop to infinitesimal levels. (Yes, there's always that 1:100M chance of something truely weird happening, but realistically....)

scott rourke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 20

We just rapped a doubled line from the top of the spire, while attached to the line going to the rim with our jumars and a back-up knot. You rap diagonally into space while the rim rope pulls you to the rim side. Not a Tyrolean I guess but fast and easy to set up. When you arrived at the rim side you just jumared up the rope. The last person pulls the doubled rope on the spire then jumars up the rim side. Of course, you keep the rap line and the rim-side rope attached to each other so the next person can pull it all back.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, UT · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 22,419
Marc801 C wrote: About the belay.....other than when initially weighting the tyrolean, the belay is primarily psychological. Consider that the anchors on the tip are solid bolts and the anchor on the rim is a big ass tree. The only way any of this can fail is if someone screwed up in rigging the traverse line. Once it's weighted the chances of any failure drop to infinitesimal levels. (Yes, there's always that 1:100M chance of something truely weird happening, but realistically....)

Yep.  Like that.

Since we had to get the line across anyhow, made sense to belay.  But, yeah, had the tree anchor failed (from which the three of us had already rappelled from earlier in the day), then we'd have had a bad day.  

I have a pretty strong memory of jugging across the Tyrolean and right at the rim, Brutus of Wyde, with a huge grin, hands me an unexpected Sapporo.  Great partner.
michael sershen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 0
Marc801 C wrote: . (Yes, there's always that 1:100M chance of something truely weird happening, but realistically....)

I'm not so sure about that...I saw a trip report once were something weird happen on a tyrolean.


They even got a pic of it:


If it's in a movie, it must be pretty common, right?
Shaniac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 24
michael sershen wrote:

I'm not so sure about that...I saw a trip report once were something weird happen on a tyrolean.


They even got a pic of it:


If it's in a movie, it must be pretty common, right?

Sorry... you referenced the wrong photo, the actual one is below.

PRRose · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0
ThomasR wrote:

.......My answer is that nothing will stop the climber from swinging back into the pillar if the rim side fails...

Exactly. A swing from more than few feet out from the tip would result in a major splat into the pillar. Better than falling to the valley floor, but likely a serious injury.

I asked the question because I was wondering if there was a way to avoid the splat that wasn't apparent to me.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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