Rowing machines and climbing?

I need cardio, and was thinking of getting a rowing machine. I liked them at my gym, so I know I'll use the thing, especially since the only place I can park it right now is in the living room of my very small house, lol! With arthritic knees, running isn't good, and I don't walk or bike fast enough to ramp the heart up past moderate.

Question though? I'm a noob to training, and know nothing. Will the rower work all the same stuff climbing does? Or will it help with antagonist stuff?

Thanks! Helen

Mikey Wally wrote: rowing is an easy way to get yourself injured. it's hard to learn the proper form. i used to row in college. rowing is a good leg sport if that's what you're looking for. it's kind of like doing a clean in weight lifting, it's also similar to maybe track cycling. but rowing machines are brutal pain creators.

if you have a person that can treat you proper form, rowing is great for putting yourself in a pain cave and testing your heart and lungs and legs. it's very hard if you want it to be.

Trainers are who introduced me to them! They can also be slow and relaxing, for me. Or, ramp up some for the cardio without beating my knees up. The knees seem to like the bending, and I know it helps stave off fossilization. I'm old, beat up, and not an athlete, so I won't be seeking out a pain cave. I'm pretty much just general fitness and working to keep the parts more or less hanging together.

Best, Helen

All, I'm still looking for some input on this, thanks!

I've got a rower in residence now, rented from my gym for the duration. Plus, I'm on the wait list to buy one, whenever they start back up making them.

I'll use it to help boost cardio, and because I enjoy it, at a slower pace, but how does rowing fit in with climbing? Is there anything I should be doing to counterbalance rowing?

My main goal is still general fitness (even more important now), but I hope to not lose too much in the meantime. I'd really like to come out stronger, if I can. I'm no great shakes as a climber to begin with, and not climbing at all now, sadly.

Best, Helen

Tendinitis has been a big part of my climbing career, and rowing machines certainly are a part of that. So for me, they are absolutely integral to the true climbing lifestyle.

We have a gym quality rower that has been collecting dust for years.  Now we are way into it.  We don't know if we are doing it right, but I know one thing, that machine is kicking my ass.  I usually try for 50-60 pulls non-stop but sometimes I do as many as 100.  Like I said, we have no idea what we are doing,  but after 4 weeks we really see a difference.  We just realized it is adjustable.  It is on level 7 and we will just leave it there because we like the results we have achieved.  If we are locked down for another 2 months we are going to be looking pretty good for a couple of old people:-)

I really liked the WaterRower. They have a tank of water with what looks like a fan blade inside, so it gives a natural feel and sound like being on the water. I generally hate using exercise machines, but with this I could close my eyes and feel like I was outside. Like Mikey said, form is important https://www.waterrower.com/us/water-resistance They have rowing tutorials on the site, though can't give you an expert critique of how good they are.

Get a little training, form is super important, and like riding a bike, so is cadence. Ease into it, don't row too far, don't get out of balance and be all push or all pull, it'll be awhile before you can coordinate the muscle groups to keep from hurting yourself (da big muscles kill da little muscles before they learn to keep up..) As far as a workout goes, once you learn how to use an erg, it is, as stated above, the pain cave of pain caves. Be sure to have a hot bath and vodka at the ready!

As someone who competed at rowing for years, and is now a climber, I will say it is my favorite piece of equipment to watch people try to use at the gym.  All back and arms (who needs legs?), dipping the hands to the point where they drag their knuckles (bonus workout?), one arm erging ( that’s a drill on the water, not the erg) and going at what looks to be faster than 40 strokes per minute (more strokes means fast, right?).  Rowing is a great way to get full body fitness, but you’re going to spend a ton of time in the pain cave.  Like black out delirious leg pain with screaming lungs of fire.

The concept 2 rower is pretty popular.  Even on its highest resistance and only for the first few pulls, it seems to me a single pull would be roughly equivalent to doing a clean with 2x 15 lb dumbbells - like not even an empty bar.  It's an aerobic machine.  Seems to me if you got injured on one, your're either grievously out of shape or have inconceivably shitty form.  I've never even heard of a muscle injury on one, this is news to me.

Bill Schick wrote: The concept 2 rower is pretty popular.  Even on its highest resistance and only for the first few pulls, it seems to me a single pull would be roughly equivalent to doing a clean with 2x 15 lb dumbbells - like not even an empty bar.  It's an aerobic machine.  Seems to me if you got injured on one, your're either grievously out of shape or have inconceivably shitty form.  I've never even heard of a muscle injury on one, this is news to me.

This is pretty much my experience.

I'm in no danger of anything like what those of you who are actual rowers can do. I'm 63, 4'11", 130ish pounds, and have arthritis in both knees, okay?

What I was taught, the super simple version, is legs arms, arms legs. Arms straight, push back with legs and lean back, snap the arms in, then kinda reverse that. I row about a 2:30 500m, laughably slow, I'm sure, but it gets the heart rate up, and the movement really helps those stiff knees. Looking online, as far as I can tell, I'm doing fine, for technique. But whadda I know?

I also enjoyed the water type rower, but the concept 2 is what the gym has that I'm renting. For purchasing, I'm thinking to stick with it. I like it, and by the time I get one, I'll either have good habits or have died, or have given up entirely and could likely sell the thing or gift it to the gym in exchange for membership or something. 

Thanks for the replies, on and offline both!

Best, Helen

Is there a web-page that that will teach a person how to use a rower properly.  We have a concept-2.   I guess we have been lucky with the resistance  being set so high that we are only able to row slow. We are already 4 weeks into this, using this machine every day,  with no injuries so I guess high resistance and slow speed  is working for us.  

Bill Schick wrote: The concept 2 rower is pretty popular.  Even on its highest resistance and only for the first few pulls, it seems to me a single pull would be roughly equivalent to doing a clean with 2x 15 lb dumbbells - like not even an empty bar.  It's an aerobic machine.  Seems to me if you got injured on one, your're either grievously out of shape or have inconceivably shitty form.  I've never even heard of a muscle injury on one, this is news to me.

I agree, although it's entirely possible I simply can't appreciate how much I don't know. I've had a Concept 2 for a decade and it's about the only thing I've not gotten hurt doing. 

I think using it for aerobic exercise is perfectly reasonable. Do you have a heart rate monitor? Just get to the upper end of your Zone 1 and keep it there for an hour.

As far as climbing it uses some of the same muscle groups and certainly won't hurt but I think adding some hangboard time or other finger/forearm training would be key.

Heya Roger,

Former rower here. Concept II (manufacturer of most rowing machines) has some technique videos here: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/technique-videos. There is also a video where some national team members show a novice how to row here: youtu.be/MnGwdJD8enU?t=31

You didn't quite ask this but you can get a good workout in on a rowing machine without needing perfect technique. Rowers are also trying to practice technique necessary for being out on the water, which doesn't matter so much if you're just erging. Admittedly I still get kinda twitchy when I'm in the gym and somebody is all over the place technique wise on an erg, but ignore me, you're just getting a workout in. (Side note rowers call rowing machines "ergs" short for ergometer).

A "jog" is usually around 18-22 strokes a minute. Race-pace is up near 34 spm. A sprint is up near 40 spm. I think most people find 24-28 spm to be a good rate. The damper setting on the side is usually around 4-5 for a workout trying to simulate rowing on the water. I routinely see them set up at 10, I guess people figure 10 is harder and therefore better. I'd go with whatever works for you.

Usually rowers pay attention to the strokes per minute, and the estimated split for 500 meters (which is kind of like minutes per mile in running).

Good luck have fun.

Rob,
   Thanks for those links.
  Yea, I have pretty bad technique but the some of it was easy to fix.  I am much smoother now and it feels way easier.  The best advice was to try it with my feet not strapped in.  It said to go slow and be careful. Well, I forgot that part.  It was ugly.  I went over backwards and crashed hard.   I got it now though  and that was a lesson I will remember:-)

Hey Helen,

My SO and I were fortunate enough to pick up an indoor rower a couple of weeks ago, and we've been using it about 4-5 days a week for general fitness purposes.  We are just novices with the erg, and we were taught the same technique you've described.  After a couple of weeks with the rower, I would say that seems like a great tool to build cardiovascular health, and I think it's definitely working many of the same muscles used in climbing.  I notice that I get a lot of activation from my quads and upper + mid back.  I typically row at a 'jogging' pace for 5-10 minutes, and then do some sets antagonist movements like pushups/push-up variations and overheard dumbbell presses in between sets of rowing, in order to balance out the front shoulders and chest.

One of the great things about the erg machines is that there are tons of workouts online that you can find from a quick Google search.  Like I said, i'm just an amateur, but I think the erg is a great option.

Vic Davalos wrote: Hey Helen,

My SO and I were fortunate enough to pick up an indoor rower a couple of weeks ago, and we've been using it about 4-5 days a week for general fitness purposes.  We are just novices with the erg, and we were taught the same technique you've described.  After a couple of weeks with the rower, I would say that seems like a great tool to build cardiovascular health, and I think it's definitely working many of the same muscles used in climbing.  I notice that I get a lot of activation from my quads and upper + mid back.  I typically row at a 'jogging' pace for 5-10 minutes, and then do some sets antagonist movements like pushups/push-up variations and overheard dumbbell presses in between sets of rowing, in order to balance out the front shoulders and chest.

One of the great things about the erg machines is that there are tons of workouts online that you can find from a quick Google search.  Like I said, i'm just an amateur, but I think the erg is a great option.

Yeah, I think there's (perhaps?) a difference in just a fitness thing, versus actual training. Especially for low level stuff. Like weights as part of a program versus actual heavy lifting. 

I will say, I did get rowing shorts! Much nicer on the old butt, lol! They look like they are fixed for a six year old, but are super comfy.

Best, Helen

Well here we are after another 9 days.  We figured out the computer so now my pace is 22 strokes per minute back up at level 7.  I have balanced out the load so I feel like it is half upper body and half legs.  I am up to 12 minutes non-stop now, with a goal of 30.  That is like 264 strokes, up from 50-60.  Much easier when you do it smooth and constant.
   It is just my opinion, but I think this lockdown-social distance thing could last for months.  With that said, I don't think I will be going back to the gym (health club) anytime soon so I will try to replace some of my 3-4 days a week at the gym with a daily 30 minute workout on the rower and some early morning neighborhood bike rides.  How is everyone else doing keeping in shape and not going crazy?  No one that we know has come down with this virus yet and I hope it stays that way.  Be safe everyone and stay strong.
   Roger Brown

I've had my Concept 2 for quite a while now - well over a decade.  I guess it might have some basic carry over to actual climbing but it does have a great carryover to approach hikes.   Maybe the best general fitness machine out there - you can get everything from a nice relaxing session to keeping a trash can next to the C2 to throw up in (a max 500 or 1000 meters can be an astounding cardiovascular hit).  I've never been a "rower" and was self taught - but found the technique fairly easy to learn - and when I finally found a true rower to watch me - It was pretty good according to her.  There's quite a few videos etc out there that are helpful (but nothing beats a true "rower" to work with you.)  Don't know if it's still up and running but there was a forum out of England that if you posted a video of yourself - they would critique you and offer advice - it did help me.  The thing that seemed to help me the most when starting out was to row a very very slow stroke rate but try to still go a decent speed - it taught me to pull more correctly and not just heave on the thing.  Try different settings - I found that after a while I settled in at Setting 3 or 4 on my machine - it's not the damper setting number but the "drag factor" - your computer will show you that - which can be used to set resistance like you are used to if you row on a different machine than your personal one.

You should learn proper technique so you can cringe and judge everyone else in the gym doing it wrong 

Daniel Melnyk wrote: You should learn proper technique so you can cringe and judge everyone else in the gym doing it wrong 

Actually, it's more fun telling them how much time I spend on the machine. Not fast, just easy and steady. But, that was back when the planet fitness was open and I was going sorta regularly...seems long, long ago now.

I think I lucked into not totally sucked form, at the start. Plus, not trying to go hard, or fast. It takes concentration still, now that I'm more serious with it, to keep it from getting sloppy. I'm very sure that could get you hurt, easily, especially coupled with trying to go full tilt.

Speaking of, full tilt, is when my butt got blistered, early on, lol! I bought rowing shorts. Yay! Soooo much nicer!

I am borrowing the concept 2 I have now, from another nearby gym. I don't have a way to hook it up, yet, so I don't have it logging on a laptop. Just the display that runs when it's going. That is enough for now. Down the road? I think it would be fun to "row" a virtual waterway! I also want to see if I can row for real, even just a rowboat on a pond. Maybe take paddleboard or kayak lessons this summer???

Best, Helen

Chris Rice wrote: I've had my Concept 2 for quite a while now - well over a decade.  I guess it might have some basic carry over to actual climbing but it does have a great carryover to approach hikes.   Maybe the best general fitness machine out there - you can get everything from a nice relaxing session to keeping a trash can next to the C2 to throw up in (a max 500 or 1000 meters can be an astounding cardiovascular hit).  I've never been a "rower" and was self taught - but found the technique fairly easy to learn - and when I finally found a true rower to watch me - It was pretty good according to her.  There's quite a few videos etc out there that are helpful (but nothing beats a true "rower" to work with you.)  Don't know if it's still up and running but there was a forum out of England that if you posted a video of yourself - they would critique you and offer advice - it did help me.  The thing that seemed to help me the most when starting out was to row a very very slow stroke rate but try to still go a decent speed - it taught me to pull more correctly and not just heave on the thing.  Try different settings - I found that after a while I settled in at Setting 3 or 4 on my machine - it's not the damper setting number but the "drag factor" - your computer will show you that - which can be used to set resistance like you are used to if you row on a different machine than your personal one.

Thanks, Chris! Cardio is really tough, when knees are worn out. I can walk, for moderate stuff, but actual huffing? I just can't walk fast enough. The tower is at the foot of my bed. Right. There. Makes it pretty darn easy!

When I can, I'll try to have someone critique me, but it seems to be going fine for now. It isn't like I'm aiming to compete, just get, and stay fit.

Motivation. Sigh.

I went to the Bozeman ice fest last December. I was the slowest, always. By far. Even on downtown Bozeman sidewalks, no snow, no ice, no steep slope.

The last day was my clinic.

A last day of slowly, carefully, picking my way up an approach.

I was the slowest in that group, supposedly beginners. By far the slowest.

Which meant? I was accompanied on my trudge up that approach by Ines Pappert.

And after the clinic?

Escorted back down by Anna Pfaff.

Sheesh.

Both were extraordinarily gracious, kind, and encouraging, but still.

I owe two pro athletes a good faith effort to try harder. See what a 63 year old beginner can do.

Best, Helen