Anybody else find that food makes you feel terrible on climbing days, especially in the AM?

I eat breakfast on every regular/default (at-the-office) days like normal people.  I eat a lot, I love food, have no issues there. I'm in generally excellent health.

Eating on climbing days, especially in the AM, however, makes me feel awful.  I particularly feel awful during early AM approaches, or first leads.  I've been this way as long as I can remember.  It's a bit tough, because the bigger the day and the more you need to perform, the earlier you start and the worse I feel.

I *do* get hungry on climbing days, soon after the start of any activity. Food just doesn't seem to agree with me before the afternoon.

Does anyone else have this issue, and what is your strategy?

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Way too many details:

Will Gadd, in his book,  goes on and on about how it's really important to eat a huge bfast before going out on the ice.  I tried to do that a couple weeks ago - the early AM taste and smell of the rich food I selected practically made me gag.  (If I feel ill *before* any activity, does that mean there is a phychological component to this? This doesn't happen on light activity days so much, such as hike/backpack days.)

I don't have any troubles eating late in the day, even when I'm still active (though activity usually lightens up at the end of the day). I note, however, that at lunch,  I find sandwiches hard to swallow, too dry, no matter how much water I have, and too heavy, etc.

Finally, I'll note that when you're doing a lot of activity, one tends to not get done until late, then eat late.  Then you get up early.  Docs always tell you to eat earlier if you have stomach issues in the AM, so the natural climbing rhythym is contrary to the healthy advice.

Maybe I should give up all solid food before afternoon, and shoot gels when I'm hungry??? (They are supposed to be easy to digest. But the concept is pretty foul.)

Any hints for dealing with this, strategies for coping, or just plain knowing how many other people have these issues would be much appreciated.

-TPC

You mention having difficulty swallowing things like sandwiches when these issues are occurring. Does it feel like the food is growing in your mouth?

I deal with similar issues in that on climbing days I wake up and try to eat breakfast but it’s usually just difficult to eat, nothing tastes that great, everything tastes super dry and feels like it grows in my mouth as I chew it, makes me gag even. I have not figured it out but have always chalked it up to just eating out of routine, I rarely eat breakfast and when I do it’s usually pretty late, except on climbing days because I have to get up and started earlier. That early in the morning I’m  not stoned enough, not hungry yet, body is just out of rhythm is all I can figure. I don’t think it’s because I am eating before a particular time in the morning but because I am eating before I have been awake for a set length of time. My solution has been to wake up a little earlier, that way I can slow down my morning prep, take some time to myself, get nice and stoned and pack up, then eat after I have been awake for a little while longer. Seems to help. Eating at 6:00 am is easier if I have been up for an hour than it is to wake up at 6:00 and eat right away.

I don’t have trouble after eating though, as long as I eat something healthy I feel fine the rest of the day, I just have issues with actually eating.

Those energy gel things are pretty useful throughout the day for preventing mental and muscle fatigue. Some of them taste pretty decent, I buy one particular brand that makes something they call Roctane? I think. Sorry, I forget. The salted caramel flavor is tasty, there is a mocha one that taste okay, the others taste like ass. But you literally take one big mouthful, swallow and rinse it down with water. 

I read & write before i read any other replies, so the 3* bit was written 1st.

Can it be an anxiety issue?
very definitely
Especially if you are stuck in your head from reading & believing that your gear is going to spontaneously fail.
Or that you are going to die in the immediate next few hours while having fun climbing, & are scared to admit this feeling of dread?
Then those pent-up emotions could be the cause
Meditation, &/0r  mixed with light stretching; Yoga, is a life-style choice.
A favorite type/group of music to calm your nerves . . .
What state are you in?  wait?  CALIFORNIA!?
Get  Medical-Marijuana card ~
Consume/Smoke some thing ! w/ CBD in it! (not the highest test)
Enhancing Apatite/eating disorders is what the balanced hybrid-cross is grown for ! !

***Digestive issues? Food sensitivity? a sensitivity to early morning eating with discomfort is one thing,
 but add the feelings of "bloating', un-relivable gas, *nausea, "da-shits" or "splatz"?(explosive, feeling of urgency,  Loss-of-control)
You might want to check- Gluten intolerance- Silliacs Disease, and/or Chrones-  all gut/bowel issues  have a complex diagnosis

What is your regular diet? Have you tried a full month "near-fast" a diet very, light on solid proteins see  "cleanse/detox".
 Then go back to basics, only fresh meats/fish/vegetables, nothing packaged.  Get away from all preservatives/additives
  use only simple vegetable (light) oil (at 1st) 'Safflower Oil'

As a 1st 'meal" you need to know what works for you; (& depending on what is/is not counter to any diagnosis)

Cold Oat cereal like Cheerios - Joe's-O's_  a few hand-fulls, dry - as a 'catalyst' to "get you tummy to wake up"  

chunks/slices of white meat chicken,
 (if tolerated); simple warmed bread with a pure fruit jam, (can add  soy-based cream cheese)
oat-meal -real honey/maple syrup,
 -simple pancakes. or toast w/ "cakey" scrambled (2-3 * fewer yokes,eggs made with a teaspoon of flour White, 'Enriched' -'Buck-wheat' takes some getting used to)

thepirate1 wrote: I eat breakfast on every regular/default (at-the-office) days like normal people.  I eat a lot, I love food, have no issues there. I'm in generally excellent health.

Eating on climbing days, especially in the AM, however, makes me feel awful.  I particularly feel awful during early AM approaches, or first leads.  I've been this way as long as I can remember.  It's a bit tough, because the bigger the day and the more you need to perform, the earlier you start and the worse I feel.

I *do* get hungry on climbing days, soon after the start of any activity. Food just doesn't seem to agree with me before the afternoon.

Does anyone else have this issue, and what is your strategy?

------------------------------------------------------
Way too many details:

Will Gadd, in his book,  goes on and on about how it's really important to eat a huge bfast before going out on the ice.  I tried to do that a couple weeks ago - the early AM taste and smell of the rich food I selected practically made me gag.  (If I feel ill *before* any activity, does that mean there is a phychological component to this? This doesn't happen on light activity days so much, such as hike/backpack days.)

I don't have any troubles eating late in the day, even when I'm still active (though activity usually lightens up at the end of the day). I note, however, that at lunch,  I find sandwiches hard to swallow, too dry, no matter how much water I have, and too heavy, etc.

Finally, I'll note that when you're doing a lot of activity, one tends to not get done until late, then eat late.  Then you get up early.  Docs always tell you to eat earlier if you have stomach issues in the AM, so the natural climbing rhythym is contrary to the healthy advice.

Maybe I should give up all solid food before afternoon, and shoot gels when I'm hungry??? (They are supposed to be easy to digest. But the concept is pretty foul.)

Any hints for dealing with this, strategies for coping, or just plain knowing how many other people have these issues would be much appreciated.

-TPC

Sounds like someone gets the "butterflies"!

It is possible that physical activity after a heavy meal doesn’t agree with you. On your regular days you have a big breakfast followed by drive to work and office job. Sounds like on climbing days you try to have an even bigger/heavier breakfast, maybe at an earlier time then your normal breakfast, and then engage in a physical activity too soon.

I don’t think the “eat a big breakfast on climbing days” advice is right for everyone. It works for me. But quite a few of my partners start the day with just a coffee. Or a small bowl of oatmeal. And they are just fine. Instead of trying to force yourself to eat a meal that makes you uncomfortable, try switching it up, having a small breakfast, and snacks throughout a day. 

Regarding “can’t eat dry sandwiches during the day”, I’m in the same boat, dry sandwich just doesn’t do it for me, and water doesn’t help. . But I found that if I bring a thermos of tea (instead of just having water to wash it down), it makes a huge difference and makes the midday food much more pleasant. Since I do eat breakfast, I don’t need a sandwich, but the thermos of tea makes all the snacks that I do bring a lot better.

Another mid-day option that was very popular when my kids came climbing with me: a thermos of hot water, and those instant soup cups. Much easier to eat, and somehow a lot more satisfying. 

I agree with the others that it’s lead anxiety and trying to eat before you’re hungry.    Be aware that some tips people shared above makes it worse for me.  Everyone is different so experiment.

Hunger:  When getting up earlier and you want to eat to be fueled for a big day, try getting up even earlier, say 30 minutes earlier.  Then use that time to do something active but easy like doing dishes (if you’re on top of your dishes all the time, maybe empty the dishwasher), sweep the floor, pick up around the house.  This usually works for me to make my stomach growl.  It could also be a chronic dehydration issue, or dietary problem such as you rely on some coffee to get your hunger going.  You may need to change your daily routine so that you don’t drink coffee until you start eating. And don’t late night snack; break that habit, or stick to liquid snacks like lightly sweetened yogurt.

First Lead jitters:  I’ve been toying with the idea of, on training days, skipping the warmup climb.  Usually, I like to start the day with an easy lead, or a TR/follow, because I can’t lead squat for the first climb of the day.  But a few times lately, I experimented with some warmup excercises like easy traverse bouldering or basic exercises (approach hike alone doesn’t do it) to get things going.  I’ve then been able to comfortably do a first lead at my onsight level (which is still 5.easy).

My climbing-day breakfast is either an english muffin with peanut butter or modest bowl of granola, washed down with sugary tea.   I never eat much during the day, usually just energy gels, maybe a protein bar and water, as food just makes me feel sluggish.  I go for a high-calorie dinner once the day is done.  It's worked fine for me for 63 years of climbing, never experienced "hitting the wall" or any of the things I've read about that can be the result of inadequate nutrition.  I think everyone's metabolism is different, and we have to experiment and find what works for us, regardless of what the experts and the supplement companies are proposing.

There's a lot of possibilities here. Anxiety is a definite possibility, but a lot of people with digestion issues find they are worse earlier in the morning. You might have a mild case of any number of digestive issues that pass unnoticed on a typical day, but gets worse when you combine it with early morning physical activity. You could test that possibility by trying a few times getting up early and having a big breakfast like you do on climbing days, then going for a run or doing some other workout to see if it's the physical activity or anxiety around leading. 

I can’t eat on climbing days and don’t usually get hungry until the end of the day when I relax.  I try to eat a decent breakfast, then it’s Clif bars and trail mix until dinner.  I doubt that anyone climbs well on a full stomach.

Thanks to everyone for good suggestions.  

- I don't think I'm "above" lead anxiety, but I'm now remembering that two of my worst ever digestive issues were during dead easy days - Royal arches and some easy 7 or 8 in the valley that I'd done before.  

Most likely it's some weird combination of various things. The question is, what to do?

Next time, I'll try to do gels until mid-morning, see how that goes, try not to eat too late the night before, and report back to y'all.  Unfortunately, this won't be for some time, probably for a couple months. But if this thread is still up, I'll report back.  

Thanks to all until I report on my experiments,

-TPC

I find it easier to handle carbs than fat and protein for breakfast. So no eggs, bacon, sausages, or pizza for breakfast when climbing for me.

I keep it to simple small snacks pre-mid climbing times. I cant stand eating a meal before or mid exercise 

Patrik wrote: I find it easier to handle carbs than fat and protein for breakfast. So no eggs, bacon, sausages, or pizza for breakfast when climbing for me.

I’m exactly opposite.... Full breakfast, bacon, eggs, pancakes even pizza and a beer! But never after 7pm. 

Guy Keesee wrote:

I’m exactly opposite.... Full breakfast, bacon, eggs, pancakes even pizza and a beer! But never after 7pm. 

People are weird, No?

Sounds like we'll have some FluffyBeerPancakes  for breakfast when we team up then! (I'm an awful cook though, so it's all on you).

An Ensure and a NA beer is my preferred breakfast today. Protein and carbs.

BITD it was wake-and-bake and whatever food was leftover from the night before...not surprisingly, I climbed a lot better then.

Non climbing day I eat a 11 AM.  Lots of delicious coffee until then.

Reporting back:  Summary - skip breakfast and lightly snack all day if that works for you - works for me over a wide variety of activities and situations. 

Data: 

For some of last year and all of this year, I've done no breakfast at all, when possible just a little tea on waking to hydrate, and I feel *much* better.  After like 30 - 60 minutes of the AM approach, I'll start eating tiny amounts of gels and/or trail mix.  I'm talking about TJs trail mix, generic m&ms, raisins, peanuts and almonds kind of thing.  I get some kind of satisfaction of craving from the "sugaryness" of the trail mix, something I would normally find disgusting.  I feel much, much better with no breakfast. What a relief.

Comments: 

This really makes no sense: the peanuts and almonds you would think would be hard to digest, but I don't think I see any difference between that and gels. In small amounts, they seem to do just fine. Maybe none of this matters at all - maybe it's just eating tiny amounts until activity subsides that makes me feel better? 

I'll keep experimenting.

Conclusions: 

Experiment! Change up your eating habits if you're not perfectly happy the way you do things now.  Note your body's response in a journal or something, so you can see patterns.  Don't be afraid to buck conventional wisdom.  Will Gadd was right when he said you're doing it WRONG if you hustle and get wet and tired on the way to cold activities.  I would take that as a golden rule.  But he was NOT right, not for me, when he said you need all kinds of food for a day of climbing.  The posters above that say "whatever works for you" are in the right. 

I'm off to experiment with more gels, making my own gels, and maybe tiny bites of "hard to digest stuff", like the salami and cheese other people bring. Maybe it's just quantity and nothing else? 

Re Gels: Cliff gels have an attachment thingy that keeps the tear-off tab with the rest of the gel packaging, so you can't litter unless you drop the whole thing - I like that a lot.   

-------------------- Random Data -----------------------

Test conditions: Ice Climbing with 40 minute approach

Hammer Gel Mountain huckleberry rating: 3/5 RSBPF (1)  Review: slightly sickly sweet blueberry-ish taste.  (Standard conditions)

Cliff Mocha rating: 2/5 RSBPF Taste just too strong.  (cold and windy)

I didn't really record this carefully, but I think Gu salted caramel is more like 3.5-4 / 5 RSBPF.

Note 1: 

Rating system for backcountry prepared foods (RSBPF):

1 - violent projectile vomit

2 - causes only slight queasiness

3 - oh, whatever. OK

4 - good under certain circumstances

5 - I can’t believe it, I actually enjoyed this.

...because you can't rate gels or dehydrated meals like they were food...because they just aren't. 

I am the oposite can eat breakfast. Never eat extra . But can't digest anything but gels during a climbing or skiing day.  I can and usually do eat before the hike out. I  can never digest cliff bars

thepirate1 wrote:

Reporting back:  Summary - skip breakfast and lightly snack all day if that works for you - works for me over a wide variety of activities and situations. 

Data: 

For some of last year and all of this year, I've done no breakfast at all, when possible just a little tea on waking to hydrate, and I feel *much* better.  After like 30 - 60 minutes of the AM approach, I'll start eating tiny amounts of gels and/or trail mix.  I'm talking about TJs trail mix, generic m&ms, raisins, peanuts and almonds kind of thing.  I get some kind of satisfaction of craving from the "sugaryness" of the trail mix, something I would normally find disgusting.  I feel much, much better with no breakfast. What a relief.

Comments: 

This really makes no sense: the peanuts and almonds you would think would be hard to digest, but I don't think I see any difference between that and gels. In small amounts, they seem to do just fine. Maybe none of this matters at all - maybe it's just eating tiny amounts until activity subsides that makes me feel better? 

I'll keep experimenting.

Conclusions: 

Experiment! Change up your eating habits if you're not perfectly happy the way you do things now.  Note your body's response in a journal or something, so you can see patterns.  Don't be afraid to buck conventional wisdom.  Will Gadd was right when he said you're doing it WRONG if you hustle and get wet and tired on the way to cold activities.  I would take that as a golden rule.  But he was NOT right, not for me, when he said you need all kinds of food for a day of climbing.  The posters above that say "whatever works for you" are in the right. 

I'm off to experiment with more gels, making my own gels, and maybe tiny bites of "hard to digest stuff", like the salami and cheese other people bring. Maybe it's just quantity and nothing else? 

Re Gels: Cliff gels have an attachment thingy that keeps the tear-off tab with the rest of the gel packaging, so you can't litter unless you drop the whole thing - I like that a lot.   

-------------------- Random Data -----------------------

Test conditions: Ice Climbing with 40 minute approach

Hammer Gel Mountain huckleberry rating: 3/5 RSBPF (1)  Review: slightly sickly sweet blueberry-ish taste.  (Standard conditions)

Cliff Mocha rating: 2/5 RSBPF Taste just too strong.  (cold and windy)

I didn't really record this carefully, but I think Gu salted caramel is more like 3.5-4 / 5 RSBPF.

Note 1: 

Rating system for backcountry prepared foods (RSBPF):

1 - violent projectile vomit

2 - causes only slight queasiness

3 - oh, whatever. OK

4 - good under certain circumstances

5 - I can’t believe it, I actually enjoyed this.

...because you can't rate gels or dehydrated meals like they were food...because they just aren't. 

You should try spring energy gels. I think they taste the best out of all the gel brands and it is not just pure goo. The ones you tried are some of the worst in my opinion. 

Energy gels suck ass in my opinion.  Taste horrible. Downing raw “fortified” pancake batter followed by high sugar coffee is my alpine start kick-off of choice.  

If the salmonella/coffee combo doesn’t completely empty your bowels in writhing spasms with 15 mins of the trailhead, you’re generally good to go for an awesome long day. 

I never eat breakfast on a regular day because that is how I feel if I do.  So a cup of coffee and I am good.  But when I am going climbing all day that just doesn't cut it.  So I found out I could eat a smallish bowl of sugared cereal, like Fruit Loops or Frosted Flakes, in the morning and not get too screwed up.  The suger is enough to hold me till lunch when my stomach is much happier to have food in it.

Jan Mc wrote:

I never eat breakfast on a regular day because that is how I feel if I do.  So a cup of coffee and I am good.  But when I am going climbing all day that just doesn't cut it.  So I found out I could eat a smallish bowl of sugared cereal, like Fruit Loops or Frosted Flakes, in the morning and not get too screwed up.  The suger is enough to hold me till lunch when my stomach is much happier to have food in it.

Try substituting a Pop Tart for the cereal sometime....the effect is the same, but no cleanup.