Alternatives - Petzl RAD line?

This is probably more of a ski mountaineering question, but I'm looking for a 30m rope to keep at the bottom of my pack while touring, and the RAD line seems to be the gold standard.

I'm wondering what others are using. Is the RAD is really worth the $100+ dollars over, say, Black Diamond's 6mm static rope that's nearly identical in weight (22g/m vs 23.2 g/m)?

My gut is saying, "just go with a 7-7.6mm half rope that'll probably end up being an extra pound but likely much more durable and versatile", but I figured I'd poll the Proj first. Thoughts?

because it has the word RAD in the title?

some alternatives i've been considering for a tag/rap line priced per 30m:

the 6mm pmi cord off spool 40$ (rei)
bd 6mm static 45$ (bd site on sale now)
maxim personal escape rope 60$ (amazon)
the espirit alpine personal escape rope 75$ (alpinist review)
mammut rappel cord 78$ (epic tv) 31g/m
edelrid rap line 2 90$ (epic tv) 31g/m -- can backup as lead line
beal backup line 110$ (epic tv) 21g/m

RAD LINE 239$ 22g/m dry

i think they've all been discussed over the last few years, i just need to pick one too.

(added mammut and sites i got the prices)

I've had experience with the RAD Line, Edelrid Rap Line, Maxim PER, and Esprit APER.

The PETZL and Edelrid products are very soft and flexible. They have a really nice hand. Durability seems OK but I do not own either. I may be wrong about this but I believe the Edelrid line has the advantage of being able to be used as an emergency lead line which is worth consideration.

Even though I've used both of these a bit, when it came time to purchase a new tag I decided against them...

The Maxim and Esprit products are MUCH stiffer and feel like a different breed of rope altogether. They feel, and indeed are, incredibly durable/abrasion resistant. They will stack on a sloping ledge without falling off because they are so stiff. They are less likely to get stuck during pulls or tangled due to the stiffness. They do not handle in a buttery smooth way and are a bit harder to tie knots in. For my use, they were the obvious choice.

The Maxim PER is a slightly inferior (but fair bit cheaper) copy of the Esprit APER. It is thicker, the sheath is imperceptibly less dense, and it doesn't have the awesome end and middle marks of the Esprit. I chose the Esprit even though it was a bit more expensive. In part to support their business as they are a small, family-run outfit and I believe in that sort of thing. Also because I think it is superior to the Maxim (and this is coming from a Maxim fan - the Airliner being my favorite lead line).

I do not know how any of these ropes would perform in a ski mountaineering capacity, but for rock/alpine climbing (tag line/rap line/light hauling), I'm 100% happy with my APER.

I took the BD 6mm cord out last weekend for a little ski rappel adventure and was surprised at how well it worked. It's super light and packable for a 60 m, not too stiff, and it handled really well. I extended the rap with a short sling and used a hollow-block backup and never had a concern about lack of friction despite the super skinny diameter. Durability shouldn't be an issue for skiing applications so it really seems like a winner vs the RAD.

Here's a great alternative to the RAD line, a fully dynamic cord, 70M for $115/shipped! 
This way you get enough for two 30M + sections ; )

Boissal . wrote: I took the BD 6mm cord out last weekend for a little ski rappel adventure and was surprised at how well it worked. It's super light and packable for a 60 m, not too stiff, and it handled really well. I extended the rap with a short sling and used a hollow-block backup and never had a concern about lack of friction despite the super skinny diameter. Durability shouldn't be an issue for skiing applications so it really seems like a winner vs the RAD.

From their website it doesn't look dry treated - is this a concern for you?

Boissal . wrote: I took the BD 6mm cord out last weekend for a little ski rappel adventure and was surprised at how well it worked. It's super light and packable for a 60 m, not too stiff, and it handled really well. I extended the rap with a short sling and used a hollow-block backup and never had a concern about lack of friction despite the super skinny diameter. Durability shouldn't be an issue for skiing applications so it really seems like a winner vs the RAD.

can you compare it to the pmi? it’s on sale now and virtually the same price. had mixed luck with bd ropes in the past for durability, i think they use both beal and tendon to manufacture them. 

Svvenson wrote:

From their website it doesn't look dry treated - is this a concern for you?

Not really, I can't see myself getting after something that requires a rappel if temps are going to be warm enough that the snowpack gets wet and in turn gets the rope soaked. Usually things are cold enough that the snow doesn't stick to the rope and all you need is a good shake to get all the snow off. Last week we were a party of 3 and did 2 rappels on the line in about 12" of fresh snow. I ended up skiing with the rope clipped to my pack and dragging behind me to reach a safe zone (instead of dallying under the rap waiting for something to nail me on the head). I then pulled the rope, shook it, and tossed it in the pack. It was barely humid when I got home    

petzl logic wrote:
can you compare it to the pmi? it’s on sale now and virtually the same price. had mixed luck with bd ropes in the past for durability, i think they use both beal and tendon to manufacture them.

Never used the PMI, sorry. I've also had back luck with BD ropes but their warranty has been solid. We'll see how durable this one is, it's not seeing much use as I try not to spend too much time rappelling with skis... 

Josh Janes wrote: 
The Maxim and Esprit products are MUCH stiffer and feel like a different breed of rope altogether. They feel, and indeed are, incredibly durable/abrasion resistant. They will stack on a sloping ledge without falling off because they are so stiff. They are less likely to get stuck during pulls or tangled due to the stiffness. They do not handle in a buttery smooth way and are a bit harder to tie knots in. For my use, they were the obvious choice.

I am curious: have you joined a PER/APER to a normal dynamic single rope for rappel, and if so, what knot did you use?

(and did you die?)

The biggest thing that sets the RAD line apart from others is that it has a 4kn rating for sheath slip.  The Mammut equivalent has a similar rating and is approved for use with a micro-trax or ti-bloc plus it's dry treated.  I picked up the Mammut line this winter but haven't used it yet.  I had considered the BD 6mm static line too but couldn't find a value on the sheath slip rating.  I looked at some of the others listed above but was able to pick up the Mammut line locally before a trip that I was headed out on.

mbk wrote: I am curious: have you joined a PER/APER to a normal dynamic single rope for rappel, and if so, what knot did you use?

(and did you die?)

Yes, and I use the same knot I always use: An overhand, tight and well dressed, then a second overhand snugged up against the first to prevent the first from rolling.

However, my preferred method is to join each rope (APER & Lead Line) to a locking carabiner via overhands on bights, and to use the APER as a pull cord.

(amazingly, still here)

I've used a RAD line extensively for ski mountaineering. The light weight, packability, and easy handling make it better than the other 6mm lines I've used (Edelrid, Mammut). Is it $100 better? Hard to say. It depends on if I've been shy on money for a bit or if I have a little extra at the time you ask me.

An alternative line that I've been eyeing when it comes time to replace my RAD line is the Beal Back-Up. I've seen a lot of euros using that line and Beal rates it for glacier rescue, so it should be good to go for rappel purposes as well. It's less expensive than the RAD line from what I've seen. The time I've spent handling the Back-Up has given me the feel that it will start out a little stiffer than the RAD line but end up handling pretty similarly. 

NateC wrote: I've used a RAD line extensively for ski mountaineering. The light weight, packability, and easy handling make it better than the other 6mm lines I've used (Edelrid, Mammut). Is it $100 better? Hard to say. It depends on if I've been shy on money for a bit or if I have a little extra at the time you ask me.

An alternative line that I've been eyeing when it comes time to replace my RAD line is the Beal Back-Up. I've seen a lot of euros using that line and Beal rates it for glacier rescue, so it should be good to go for rappel purposes as well. It's less expensive than the RAD line from what I've seen. The time I've spent handling the Back-Up has given me the feel that it will start out a little stiffer than the RAD line but end up handling pretty similarly. 

Beal Back-up is 5 mm? That's getting THIN for crevasse rescue, not sure how I'd fell slapping a microtraxion on it! Good option for rappels though, it's lighter than the BD 6 mm. And almost twice the price.

I hear you, but at the same time Beal is specifically marketing it for crevasse rescue in a kit with their version of a microtraxion, so maybe it's cool? It has an aramid sheath so it should be fairly abrasion resistant, given the diameter. It's also 5.5mm but standards don't allow it to be marketed as such. 

Anyone using the Beal 5mm Backup line when roping up for glacier travel? Petzl says their 6mm RAD is ok for this. Both ropes are ultra-static and about same breaking strength but Beal doesn’t seem to claim glacier travel as a use for their line.

Josh Janes wrote:I may be wrong about this but I believe the Edelrid line has the advantage of being able to be used as an emergency lead line which is worth consideration.

You are right. The problem is that if you ever take a fall on it (apart from the fact that its gonna hurt, a lot) you should retire the rope so it can be a monster issue if you are in a middle of a multipitch (or at least you are gonna be taking more risk using it after that) in other words don't buy it thinking you are gonna use that feature. 

Still, that is the one I use (Edelrid Rapline 50 meters) for glacier travel only or for +25 meters long abseil with a Beal Opera 50. I like it a lot, maybe for winter conditions its absorbing a bit too much water I would say

I think if you're ever in a situation where you've decided the best course of action is to continue leading on a back up line AND you fall on it, you're either so far out there that having the back up made you safer then not having it despite it not being good to fall on multiple times, or you've made a series of awful decisions. 

Ray Huntzinger wrote: Anyone using the Beal 5mm Backup line when roping up for glacier travel? Petzl says their 6mm RAD is ok for this. Both ropes are ultra-static and about same breaking strength but Beal doesn’t seem to claim glacier travel as a use for their line.

Hey Ray, it seems as though Beal has that in mind for the Backup line, though they don't discuss specifically roping up for travel. Here's some info... youtube.com/watch?v=9LyagRx…