Max Torque on Powers 5-piece SS 3/8"

Hello all,

So this weekend I decided to try out some Powers SS 3/8" 5-piece bolts after using the 1/2" ones for a while.  I placed five this weekend, very solid southern sandstone, everything seemed to go smoothly.  Last night I was piddling around online and something caught my eye that I didn't notice before:  the max torque for the 3/8" bolts are HALF that of the 1/2" bolt (12 ft*lbs instead of 25).  I feel so stupid for not checking, but I just didn't think about it.  Is there anything I can do about this?  Are these bolts safe?  
 
EDIT:  I should also point out that these WERE placed in a very backwoods area that I expect to see very little traffic.

These 3/8ths 5 piece bolts are crap anyway why down grade from half inch?
Nobody should be using 3/8ths these days unless you are super out there and need to role extra light.
The sleeve on the 3/8ths five piece is like a soda can in quality at least use 3/8ths wedge bolts or even better just dont use 3/8ths its 2020.

They are cheaper is the main reason.  I've read on here not to use wedge bolts in sandstone.  Most people I've talk to in my area use 3/8", so I'm not really concerned about that.

Are you using SS or plated? The torque differs between the two. 12ft-lb for SS, 25ft-lb for 3/8” plated 5piece, though the new 3/8” PB+ aren’t recommended anyway due to their 1/4” inner bolt.

Cheaper is not sustainable long term especially since these bolts are over torqued and someone else is gonna have to come along and replace your work.
Half inch five piece and glue ins should be the norm these days unless you are placing a bolt that will prob never be used again.
Id say if your gonna be cheap leave the bolting to people who are gonna do it right the last thing we need is more junky hardware that needs to be replaced frequently.

Drew Nevius wrote: Are you using SS or plated? The torque differs between the two. 12ft-lb for SS, 25ft-lb for 3/8” plated 5piece, though the new 3/8” PB+ aren’t recommended anyway due to their 1/4” inner bolt.

SS

Blockhead wrote: Cheaper is not sustainable long term especially since these bolts are over torqued and someone else is gonna have to come along and replace your work.
Half inch five piece and glue ins should be the norm these days unless you are placing a bolt that will prob never be used again.
Id say if your gonna be cheap leave the bolting to people who are gonna do it right the last thing we need is more junky hardware that needs to be replaced frequently.   

I've been using 1/2", but I decided to try out 3/8" based on multiple posts on this forum saying that 3/8" is fine and it already being the standard around here.  You guys were nowhere to be found on these threads where literally everyone was is in agreement that SS 3/8" is perfectly fine. 

Any doorknob can place a bolt removing and replacing bolts is the real challenge.

3/8" are the new quarter-incher bro

JD Borgeson wrote:

I've been using 1/2", but I decided to try out 3/8" based on multiple posts on this forum saying that 3/8" is fine and it already being the standard around here.  You guys were nowhere to be found on these threads where literally everyone was is in agreement that SS 3/8" is perfectly fine. 

3/8 x 3.5 is totally fine as long as the rock is hard. 1/2" is for softer rock. There are definitely some very hard sandstones. Just make sure yours is one of them.

Darren Mabe wrote: 3/8" are the new quarter-incher bro

Want to elaborate on this? A ⅜” inch 304SS wedge  isn’t the best option, especially for rap bolting sport crags, but it is a good bolt for hard rock types that will last just as long as a ½” 304SS sleeve unless it’s a crux bolt on a high traffic route.  I think that ⅜” bolts still have a time and place.  I do agree that the new ⅜” powerbolts are less than ideal due to the weak overall strength and thin bolt inside the sleeve 

Turner wrote: For the five piece:

SS 3/8 is 12lbs

SS 1/2 is 25lbs

PS 3/8 is 25lbs

PS 1/2 is 45lbs

I can never remember so I keep the specs on my phone and adjust the torque wrench accordingly. Did you accidentally tightening a SS 3/8 to 25lbs?

 Yes, I torqued an SS 3/8" to 25 ft*lbs

Scott E wrote:

Want to elaborate on this? A ⅜” inch 304SS wedge  isn’t the best option, especially for rap bolting sport crags, but it is a good bolt for hard rock types that will last just as long as a ½” 304SS sleeve unless it’s a crux bolt on a high traffic route.  I think that ⅜” bolts still have a time and place.  I do agree that the new ⅜” powerbolts are less than ideal due to the weak overall strength and thin bolt inside the sleeve 

Wasted sarcasm. It's the vibe I get in climbing these days. I also use 3/8" in solid rock. 

JD Borgeson wrote:

 Yes, I torqued an SS 3/8" to 25 ft*lbs

Not good. Go tighten one of them just a *little* more and see what happens

Anyone have any data to back up either argument? 

Ziggy Chalkdust wrote: It’s not 2019 anymore guys; unless you are doing a new technical route on an 8000 meter peak in winter, all new routes should have stainless 5/8” lead bolts and 3/4” anchors. Also, I hope everybody is calibrating their digital torque gauges at least biweekly. 

Every 10th bolt I send it to metrology for calibration

David Bruneau wrote: Anyone have any data to back up either argument? 

No data. I have broken some on purpose by going past recommended torque in test rocks. Especially bolts I'm not familiar with.

What would you like to hear David?

Darren Mabe wrote: What would you like to hear David?

Ideally, tensile strength of a bolt that has been overtorqued by a factor of 1.25, 1.5, 2, 2.5 (up to the torque where you'd shear the bolt off). For sleeve and wedge bolts. Maybe I will message those highline guys who are breaking lots of bolts.

Ziggy Chalkdust wrote: It’s not 2019 anymore guys; unless you are doing a new technical route on an 8000 meter peak in winter, all new routes should have stainless 5/8” lead bolts and 3/4” anchors. Also, I hope everybody is calibrating their digital torque gauges at least biweekly. 

Playin it a little loosey goosey, don't you think? The only thing that should be used is titanium glue-ins to secure a ladder onto the cliff face. Anything less is just trad climbing.

I'm not an authority on the subject, i'd wait for Mr. Titt to chime in, but from my research, i've been led to believe that if you are truly hand tightening with a 6 inch box wrench or similar, you're not going to torque the head off these. Bring out a torque wrench to bolts you've already placed and test them. That's the best way to learn what it feels like and is what a lot of us have done.