Ice Climbing - Avalanche kit suggestions

As a spin off from this thread: mountainproject.com/forum/t…  I'm wondering what are some recommended beacons, probes and shovels that are affordable and lightweight (I know I can't have both...)? I don't ski so this kit would only be used for ice climbing in avalanche prone areas (i.e. Polar Circus in the Canadian Rockies)

I've heard of the Pieps micro: https://beaconreviews.com/Specs_PiepsMicro.php but doesn't have many features compared to other heavier beacons...

This site gives a good suggestion: blacksheepadventuresports.c…

Any other feedback?

The Mammut Alugator Light and Ortovox Pro Light are relatively lightweight for shovels (440-465g) without going full carbon and a reasonable cost. Probes are harder to save weight on (carbon v. aluminum on a 240 cm probe is about 100 g), plus you need to balance space and weight v. the fact that you are likely climbing in a terrain trap and probably want a longer probe.

Will Gadd had a post with his kit a while back.

https://m.facebook.com/will.gadd/posts/2749164898456278

I have the Plume shovel, I bring it on Spring climbs sometimes to dig tent platforms. I've bent the blade with that relatively light duty (Arva sent me a replacement). My two pennies is if you're going to bother carrying a shovel in serious avy terrain, bring a real one. The lightweight ones mostly exist to meet racing regulations, they're not what you actually want to dig your buddy out with. Will's argument is it's better than nothing - obviously it's a personal call. 

Regarding the Will Gadd post above, I've found it was relatively simple to bartack a webbing loop into any zip pockets on a soft shell to ensure the security of your beacon.

For what it's worth, my own risk tolerance precludes climbing Polar Circus if I'm remotely concerned about avalanches, regardless of whether I'm carrying a rescue kit or not. But I digress.

Here's my $0.02 on avy kits in ice climbing, coming from the perspective of someone who teaches avalanche classes. Lightweight shovels are a danger to you and your partners. Lightweight probes are marginally better. Those old screw-together LifeLink probes or the "convertible ski poles" are total garbage. If you're serious about having the tools to find and dig someone out of an avalanche with any chance of a live recovery, get quality gear. That means a shovel with a sturdy metal blade, and a probe that is long enough for the snowpack you're dealing with. Of all places to potentially save weight in a pack, my opinion is that avalanche gear is the last place I'll start cutting weight.

I carry a full-size shovel with an extendable handle and a 320-cm probe. Small shovel blades don't move as much snow, short handles are harder to gain leverage. Carbon fiber probes are probably okay...but few ice packs have a dedicated avalanche gear pocket, and it's likely to be rattling around with all your other kit in your pack. Additionally carbon fiber probes take a bit of care to make sure they don't chip or crack if you hit something hard while probing. My inclination is to stick with aluminum as it's cheap, durable, and only marginally heavier than carbon. Maybe that's overly cautious, that's just my opinion. Aluminum probes are also way cheaper than carbon probes, so if cost is a concern, that seems like an easy choice for me.

As far as beacons go, I've brought the PIEPS Micro on an ice climb before but I prefer a more full-featured beacon for my everyday ski touring use. If you're only going to get one beacon, I'd recommend just about any other beacon on the market. But if the PIEPS Micro is part of a quiver of beacons, ice climbing is a pretty logical use for it.

For specific gear recommendations, I'd say go into your local ski shop and get hands on every single beacon, shovel, and probe in there. Test them out. Bring your pack to make sure they fit. See how fast you can deploy them. Is the beacon's search function switch and search display logical to you? Is the locking mechanism on the probe easy for you to fix into place? Does the shovel have a specific orientation for the handle/blade interface that makes sense when you're rushing to put it together? Do it with gloves on. Do it with your eyes closed. Then pick which shovel, probe, and beacon work for you. All of us on the internet can throw ideas your way, but at the end of the day, the best gear is the stuff that you know how to use and actually will use. Your buddy won't care whether you have a BCA probe, Mammut shovel, blah blah blah, when you dig them out alive.

jdejace wrote: Will Gadd had a post with his kit a while back.

https://m.facebook.com/will.gadd/posts/2749164898456278

I have the Plume shovel, I bring it on Spring climbs sometimes to dig tent platforms. I've bent the blade with that relatively light duty (Arva sent me a replacement). My two pennies is if you're going to bother carrying a shovel in serious avy terrain, bring a real one. The lightweight ones mostly exist to meet racing regulations, they're not what you actually want to dig your buddy out with. Will's argument is it's better than nothing - obviously it's a personal call. 

I saw that but was confused why he didn't list the names of each item for guys like me who don't know anything about that gear...

Stever wrote:

I saw that but was confused why he didn't list the names of each item for guys like me who don't know anything about that gear...

Reread Matt Z's post - lots of good stuff in there. Especially that bit about going to a local ski shop and testing everything to see what works best for you. I suspect that's why Gadd didn't list names. After all, there are relatively few manufacturers of this kind of gear.

I'm not about to discourage anyone from carrying avi rescue gear, and I've seen some of the discussions about it, but my questions is this: has anyone heard of a situation when somebody died in an avalanche during an ice climbing outing that they may have survived if they had been carrying rescue gear? I'm guessing it's happened, but I'm unaware of it. I say this having lost 5 friends who were killed by avalanches on/around ice climbs in separate incidents, and I've been hit by a couple of small avalanches on ice climbs (beacon would have done nothing if it had been bigger and ripped us from the wall except maybe help with body recovery), and I've heard of an uncomfortable number more ice climbing related avi fatalities, but have yet to hear of a single incident where rescue gear might have helped. I've used the rope in several sketch situations to mitigate avi risk while ice climbing, which seems arguably a better method than beacon/shovel/probe because it tends to stop you from tumbling down the hill with the avalanche - maybe both rope and avi rescue gear is best of all. I think it's great that people are starting to carry rescue gear around ice climbing, but just wanted to share a cautionary perspective - avalanches in ice climbing terrain tend to rip people from the wall, throw them hundreds or thousands of feet, and kill them before they even stop falling. My advice is to make decisions as if the gear will not help at all. I've carried avi gear on a couple of approaches (like the Stanley Headwall), but always left it behind once the tools came out.

topher donahue wrote: I'm not about to discourage anyone from carrying avi rescue gear, and I've seen some of the discussions about it, but my questions is this: has anyone heard of a situation when somebody died in an avalanche during an ice climbing outing that they may have survived if they had been carrying rescue gear? I'm guessing it's happened, but I'm unaware of it. I say this having lost 5 friends who were killed ............ have yet to hear of a single incident where rescue gear might have helped...........

Even if rescue gear might not save climbers, it can make recovery a lot safer and easier for SAR who may risk their lives in sketchy terrain. At least wear a turned on beacon or a couple RECCO tags.