Is stealth rubber used on a 2019 or newer 5.10 guide tennie? I heard adidas owns the patent to the words 'stealth rubber'. Not the actual rubber.

Is a 2019 or newer 5.10 guide tennie actually made with stealth rubber?

I heard that Adidas does not own the patent to 5.10 stealth rubber. Adidas only owns the name 'stealth rubber'. I ordered 2 pairs the same size as my previous shoes US 11.5 and they felt larger and then I noticed the European sizes have increased in spite of the US size being the same. My main concern is the rubber. I only want to keep these shoes if the rubber is actually the original, amazingly sticky stealth rubber.

Could anyone shed some light on the topic?  

Thanks much!

Who cares. 5.10 is the new “Black and Decker” of climbing apparel. Poorly constructed of the cheapest material at a competitive price.

But to answer your question, yes. Adidas uses the original Stealth Rubber. On everything??? Who knows. 

Their website will answer the question for you:

https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-ten-guide-tennie-men%27s-approach-shoe/BTM68.html?dwvar_BTM68_color=Dark_Cargo&cgid=#q=approach%2Bshoe&lang=default&start=23

The dot tread on the last 5.10 shoes I bought - NOT Guide Tennies - is MI6 rubber. Quite soft and sticky, but not C4.

Salamanizer suchoski wrote: Who cares. 5.10 is the new “Black and Decker” of climbing apparel. Poorly constructed of the cheapest material at a competitive price.

But to answer your question, yes. Adidas uses the original Stealth Rubber. On everything??? Who knows. 

So true. in all regards.

Black and Decker used to make amazing tools and they just kept getting worse and worse until what we are left with now

I got some guide tennies last year. Rubber is good, but im disappointed with the quality of the shoe. The heel cup feels like it’s falling apart inside and the loops in the back ripped 

Brian Fritz wrote: Is a 2019 or newer 5.10 guide tennie actually made with stealth rubber?

I heard that Adidas does not own the patent to 5.10 stealth rubber. Adidas only owns the name 'stealth rubber'. I ordered 2 pairs the same size as my previous shoes US 11.5 and they felt larger and then I noticed the European sizes have increased in spite of the US size being the same. My main concern is the rubber. I only want to keep these shoes if the rubber is actually the original, amazingly sticky stealth rubber.

Could anyone shed some light on the topic?  

Thanks much!

Yup.

They did not buy the rights to exclusivity on the chemistry, unparallel and soill had some versions of the "stealth" compounds since the OG manufacture of 5.10 Sang Lee still has rights to the compound.

No idea though if during the 5.10 buy out they also acquired all Sang's, ie 5.10's, lasts that were in socal. But the sizing consistency problem makes it sound like they might not have gotten all of that stock. So they had to get the 5.10 lasts remade by Adidas's last maker (who is qualified to do that) and there was a difference in grading the lasts from how the originally did it. Also no idea if they graded it by EU sizes or American sizes, which would change the fit of all but the reference size. 

But also in climbing shoes TINY TINY changes in material can cause MASSIVE changes in the fit of a climbing shoe. Even 1mm less rubber on the bottom of the shoe will change its fit. 

I've been wearing a pair of 2019 Guide Tennies pretty frequently this past year, and I haven't noticed any quality issues...

People love to hate on Five Ten even though La Sportiva has way worse QC issues.  Oh...I’m sorry.  Obviously the TC Pros are *supposed* to do that. :p

At this point I can't recommend in good faith that anyone buy a pair of guide tennies. The sole rips off the upper near the toe almost immediately. Because it is only connected with a veneer of rubber.

I've had the tennies for about 6 years now and noticed the issue with my last 2 pairs. Yes I got suckered into buying a 2nd shitty pair .... that rubber is like a siren song haha 

Ted Pinson wrote: People love to hate on Five Ten even though La Sportiva has way worse QC issues.  Oh...I’m sorry.  Obviously the TC Pros are *supposed* to do that. :

Care to support that claim? Not saying their top of the line or anything, but I’ve never had a pair wear out on one single 20 pitch route either. 

Current 5.10 owns the rights to the name “Stealth” and notations (Mi6, C4, etc) for the rubber, they do not own the original rubber compound mixture. UnParallel uses the OG rubber compound and lasts for their shoe lineup. I have original Dragons and HiAngles and their UnParallel counterparts (Sirius & Regulus, respectively) and the fit and performance is the same, save for some improvement tweaks that 5.10 didn’t address.

Ted Pinson wrote: People love to hate on Five Ten even though La Sportiva has way worse QC issues.  Oh...I’m sorry.  Obviously the TC Pros are *supposed* to do that. :p

I think there have been a few Five Ten hate threads where we have agreed on this aspect. I think I am going to start compiling a list of the threads in which I see people complain about Sportiva and then I can just reference all of them in the future Five Ten hate threads to come. 

Salamanizer suchoski wrote: Care to support that claim? Not saying their top of the line or anything, but I’ve never had a pair wear out on one single 20 pitch route either. 

For TC Pros, I was talking about the infamous delamination problem...pretty hilarious that a shoe that is designed for crack climbing falls apart when you climb cracks with it.  Granted, they’re still great shoes (I own 2 pairs), but that’s a pretty significant design flaw.  Miuras are famous for toe blowouts...look at literally anyone’s feet who climbs with them in the gym for more than 2 months.  Five Ten has their problems, don’t get me wrong, but they’re not alone.

The only quality control issues I’ve found from Sportiva were that they weren’t designed to handle the stresses put on them by poor technique. I agree, you look at most climbers shoes in the gym and you’ll find prematurely blown out high end shoes all around. But what you don’t see are real quality control issues like ripped stitching, split sidewalls and separating lasts like 5.10 has. What I’m saying is, climbing shoes are fairly high abuse equipment, and some level of failure should be expected. But it shouldn’t be an absolute guarantee. 

Salamanizer suchoski wrote: The only quality control issues I’ve found from Sportiva were that they weren’t designed to handle the stresses put on them by poor technique. I agree, you look at most climbers shoes in the gym and you’ll find prematurely blown out high end shoes all around. But what you don’t see are real quality control issues like ripped stitching, split sidewalls and separating lasts like 5.10 has. What I’m saying is, climbing shoes are fairly high abuse equipment, and some level of failure should be expected. But it shouldn’t be an absolute guarantee. 

I have never had a single issue with any of the 5.10 shoes I’ve worn which has been approximately 10 pairs. So to say that issues with 5.10 is guaranteed seems overblown. 

Salamanizer suchoski wrote: The only quality control issues I’ve found from Sportiva were that they weren’t designed to handle the stresses put on them by poor technique. I agree, you look at most climbers shoes in the gym and you’ll find prematurely blown out high end shoes all around. But what you don’t see are real quality control issues like ripped stitching, split sidewalls and separating lasts like 5.10 has. What I’m saying is, climbing shoes are fairly high abuse equipment, and some level of failure should be expected. But it shouldn’t be an absolute guarantee. 

Give the same climber a pair of Anasazis or Vapors and they’ll last at least two more months.  It’s a pattern across climbers from 5.9-5.13; Miuras are just not built to last, the rubber around the rand is super thin.  I agree that Five Ten has stitching issues - I just ripped a pair of Pinks at the pull loops...but they were like 3 years old and had been resoled several times, whereas I’ve seen Miuras blow out in less than 3 months.

I had Hiangle issues and was told the following by the rep helping me with a warranty: Five Ten switched several factories over the past year, but was left with old inventory. One of the factories in their inventory was producing ALL of the bad delaminating shoes.  I received a replacement pair of Hiangles that was different construction and slightly different materials. They fit much tighter, didn't bag out, and in the end I like them more.

FWIW I had a pair of shoes come from the old factory that had 2 different thickness soles. The grind marks were also super coarse. I also received some Unparallel shoes with EXACTLY the same defect.

As for La Spo I have had 3 issues with Skwamas: 1 delaminated at the heel, another had the elastic pop completely on the upper, and a recent pair had stitching issues and the velcro literally ripped off. I have seen very inconsistent sizing and construction as well. I tried on 2 pairs of the same shoe in store and 1 pair had the strap loop sewn further back, which caused the upper to fit differently. FWIW while I did have one bad pair of Hiangles out of 4 I am batting 3 for 3 with Skwamas. My TX3's also. haven't been very durable and despite very easy approaches are fraying all over just from friction of the upper rubbing itself.

As for the 5.10 rubber a friend is sponsored by them and said he has never noticed a difference in his Hiangles. So, C4 hasn't changed. I feel the HF on the new Dragons is not the same though.

Karl Walters wrote: I had Hiangle issues and was told the following by the rep helping me with a warranty: Five Ten switched several factories over the past year, but was left with old inventory. One of the factories in their inventory was producing ALL of the bad delaminating shoes.  I received a replacement pair of Hiangles that was different construction and slightly different materials. They fit much tighter, didn't bag out, and in the end I like them more.

FWIW I had a pair of shoes come from the old factory that had 2 different thickness soles. The grind marks were also super coarse. I also received some Unparallel shoes with EXACTLY the same defect.

As for La Spo I have had 3 issues with Skwamas: 1 delaminated at the heel, another had the elastic pop completely on the upper, and a recent pair had stitching issues and the velcro literally ripped off. I have seen very inconsistent sizing and construction as well. I tried on 2 pairs of the same shoe in store and 1 pair had the strap loop sewn further back, which caused the upper to fit differently. FWIW while I did have one bad pair of Hiangles out of 4 I am batting 3 for 3 with Skwamas. My TX3's also. haven't been very durable and despite very easy approaches are fraying all over just from friction of the upper rubbing itself.

As for the 5.10 rubber a friend is sponsored by them and said he has never noticed a difference in his Hiangles. So, C4 hasn't changed. I feel the HF on the new Dragons is not the same though.

Karl, can you comment on the “new” 5.10 shoes fitting a size smaller? After a poor experience with a pair of Hiangles delaminating after a few weeks, I’ve been avoiding 5.10 shoes, save for a new pair of Grandstones that I really like. I want to risk getting another pair of Hiangles and comments online complain a size 9.5 fits like an 8.5, so to size up a full size. Curious if you can confirm the sizing change. I had the Hiangle issue about this time last year... hopefully all the bad stock is now gone  

I’ve been exploring Scarpa, LS, and UP and nothing fits my feet as well as 5.10, so I very much need them to sort their shit and stop discontinuing awesome models and screwing with the sizing. Although, I’m loving the UP Sirius. 

They fit about the same, maybe 1/4-1/2 size smaller, but do not stretch as much mostly. I didn't have to go up a full size at all.

I love my UP Sirius as well, which makes sense since it has the same last as the Hiangle (according to them). The Regulus LV is oddly higher volume than a men's Hiangle, but still works for the most part.