NC Table Rock Lightening ledge erosion.

Edit to add:  you can also climb out from the right side of lightning ledge (from near block route anchors) straight up the left side of the obvious buttress.  It's a 5.7ish corner. Just watch a few loose blocks on it.  No idea what it's called but I'm sure someone has a seleced climbs book handy.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/108342369/fields-direct

Sean Cobourn wrote:

Oh fun memes!! what a joke all of this is!!! 

 
Oh goodie gum drops king hypocrite!!

Such a lovely example of this secret often hypocritical and sometimes tasteless  behavior.

Question part one:

Enlighten me as to why you are the only one allwed to sell/distribute info on the “pace” spot in Tyron/hendersonville?  Its on public land 100%. Plenty of parking, you sport bolted much of it and with such softie grades it may as well be a mini RRG.

Its public land why should it not be public knowledge????

 
What will the MP admin be told for the reason it needs to be taken down?? You Published a book on it and you promote it on social media publicly.  And you pocket money from its sales, and yet it is public forrest land with no actual “access issues” that I can see. But the book states “it does not need a MP page due to access issues.”

How is it going to look to forrest service when they peek at that book which was clearly written under the influence?  Does that endanger access? Did you intentionally write the directions poorly and with errors to get people lost for fun or were you just nodding off too hard?  

Part two:
The boys club

I noticed that a female climber recently added an interesting article in the comments section of “titties and beer” go read it.  It is likely a little strong in the opposite direction but it makes a solid point, some of the rock climb names on PUBLIC LAND are straight up sexist.  Sean, tell me,  did you tell your two daughters you helped name a route “bukkake”? Is this healthy inclusive behavior? Are we treating our fellow female climbers with respect when we do this? Or is it just tasteless? Is it objectifying women and degrading them? What a swell group of fellowzzzz. I for one, am glad these people decide on bolt spacing (safety) for me, they are for sure always right, EYEROLL.

To the rest of you who likely hate me after Ive run my stupid ass mouth too much;

Its...... its.... almost like I know someone in the organization shit the bed and didnt say.  Its all under the covers right now.  And they werent completely wrong, the toilet was clogged... But many of you are in the bed helping perpetuate the crap, and everyone that donates helps perpetuate this crap. Donate and volunteer elsewhere.  Can’t say i didnt warn ya! Take it easy on the koolaid ya heard? 

These are soooo fun

We should probably make a separate thread (or two) around these questions:

1. Is it okay to sell guide books to public lands, then demand the information be kept off Mountain Project? In what cases would this be justified?

2. Should we change route names to be more inclusive? Who controls a route name, especially after the FA is gone, or the route is on public land? (I'm pretty sure there is already a very heated thread about this elsewhere on MP. Turns out a lot of climbing is "old boys club," which isn't surprising given the traditionally male dominated history of the sport)

I don't know too much about the access issues or guidebook situation in NC anymore, haven't been able to climb outside a lot, so don't be mad if I am misrepresenting things. But it sounds like these are some main issues the above poster is taking with the CCC.

Benandstuff wrote: We should probably make a separate thread (or two) around these questions:

1. Is it okay to sell guide books to public lands, then demand the information be kept off Mountain Project? In what cases would this be justified?

2. Should we change route names to be more inclusive? Who controls a route name, especially after the FA is gone, or the route is on public land? (I'm pretty sure there is already a very heated thread about this elsewhere on MP. Turns out a lot of climbing is "old boys club," which isn't surprising given the traditionally male dominated history of the sport)

I don't know too much about the access issues or guidebook situation in NC anymore, haven't been able to climb outside a lot, so don't be mad if I am misrepresenting things. But it sounds like these are some main issues the above poster is taking with the CCC.

Now we gettin some traxion in this silly mud hole

. wrote:

Part two:
The boys club

I noticed that a female climber recently added an interesting article in the comments section of “titties and beer” go read it.  It is likely a little strong in the opposite direction but it makes a solid point, some of the rock climb names on PUBLIC LAND are straight up sexist.

I think it's hilarious Frank Zappa is no longer "woke" enough for the social justice crowd.

I am no longer on the CCC board, but I can say that in my time on the board, the only 2 areas which were asked to be removed from MP were Sauratown and Hidden Valley and I was the one who asked for it. The reason for both is the land manager (which is not the CCC) said they preferred that the areas not be listed here. Given that ultimately land managers make decisions about these kinds of things and continued access can hinge on it, those seem like reasonable requests.

I know conspiracy theories and the Internet go together like pink tricams and Looking Glass,  but there’s no deep climbing state at work here. 

Brian Payst wrote: 
I know conspiracy theories and the Internet go together like pink tricams and Looking Glass,  but there’s no deep climbing state at work here. 

That's exactly what the deep climbing state would have us believe. Climbing boogaloo!!!!11

Kyle, FYI, I got nothing against you personally, I just found your lengthy rant humorous so I created a cute meme.  Bummer you are so angry with the CCC for still obscure reasons.  I find those who get angry with volunteer organizations with a long track record of doing good deeds for all of us tiresome.  Just so you know I have no position with the CCC and have been out of office for over a decade.

FYI: Pace is not on Forest Service land.  There is a potential for access issues.  Not every cliff needs or deserves a Mt. Project page.  Some day it may be appropriate.  It is my opinion that time is not now.  No one is stopping you from posting it, but I will politely ask that you not.  Hope you like the book.  I spent much time on it and much time and money developing the routes.  Seems appreciation should be in order rather than criticism.  A simple thank you is what most people offer.    Your climbs at P-Town look very nice by the way.  Who got that cliff opened ??  Oh yes.  The CCC.  Perhaps a thank you is in order to them as well.

From what I hear the guidebook authors are rolling in dollars, fame and accolades !
Lol

Travis Weil wrote: Having been up Lightning Ledge before and after the fire which has aided the erosion, there are other possible routes to cross that gap you are speaking of besides below the small rock feature. When guiding that, I would generally traverse on the rock above the traditional path avoiding the hazard. Take a look around next time you go up there and choose better terrain.

Yeah that's the way I've been going for the past several years. The fire really did some substantial damage up there. The ledge system that spans from the P2 bolted anchors of Hidden Crack and left to above Rip Van Winkle is also in pretty bad shape - tons of brush and limbs. It's unfortunate because there's some pretty cool climbing on that section of the east face as well. 

"deep climbing state"

Love it!   This would be an entertaining thread, but unfortunately there's a dude spraying some serious hateful energy.   My heart goes out to him, climbing is is supposed to be fun.

Russ Keane wrote: "deep climbing state"

Love it!   This would be an entertaining thread, but unfortunately there's a dude spraying some serious hateful energy.   My heart goes out to him, climbing is is supposed to be fun.

Lol come on! Hateful energy, dudes venting. He obviously enjoys and is passionate about climbing. Serious hateful energy LMFAO sounds way to serious.

For the record, there are already bolts on the sketchy sections of the traverse off LL. You can short rope, short pitch, simul, or fixline out. I have used them many, many times for work and play.

Since this thread mentioned Hidden Valley, I thought I would share this.  Recently wrote it for another thread of similar subject.

Some thoughts on Hidden Valley:
2014 - CCC purchases access and immediately opens it for climbers, purchase includes all of the right side and left side up to Possum Point.  From Possum Point on, landowners allow access.
September 23, 2016 - VDGIF closes its parking area to climbing from October 1 - January 7.
CCC then decides to build new lot.
October 5, 2016 - CCC finishes its own parking lot.
October 2016 - guidebook is also released and a trail is built from the parking lot to the cliff.
Spring 2017 - VDGIF surveys the cliff, the result shows that most of the left side cliff the whole way is owned by the state of Virginia.  Permit needed to climb.
November 26, 2017 - landowner request that noise be kept down and that dogs be left at home.
2014 to present - volunteers have spent countless hours replacing hundreds of bolts

This is a glimpse of the recent history.  A lot of people worked hard to make it happen and want it open to the public.  Hidden is not a destination place, but it is a fantastic cliff that does have potential access issues due to multiple landowners.  Keeping it off MP (it does have a page for basic information and directions) is kinda like a filter that may keep it from being overrun in the future.  The parking lot is excellent, but cannot handle large crowds.  Folks who want to enjoy it to the fullest will get the guidebook, but heck, you don’t really even need a guidebook.  I climbed there for two years with no guidebook.  Most stuff is well bolted.  I would just look to see what seemed within my range and give it a shot, felt like adventurey sport climbing, it was super fun.  The CCC’s work at Hidden Valley convinced me to start giving back to the climbing community as well.

Curtis Baird wrote: Since this thread mentioned Hidden Valley, I thought I would share this.  Recently wrote it for another thread of similar subject.

Some thoughts on Hidden Valley:
2014 - CCC purchases access and immediately opens it for climbers, purchase includes all of the right side and left side up to Possum Point.  From Possum Point on, landowners allow access.
September 23, 2016 - VDGIF closes its parking area to climbing from October 1 - January 7.
CCC then decides to build new lot.
October 5, 2016 - CCC finishes its own parking lot.
October 2016 - guidebook is also released and a trail is built from the parking lot to the cliff.
Spring 2017 - VDGIF surveys the cliff, the result shows that most of the left side cliff the whole way is owned by the state of Virginia.  Permit needed to climb.
November 26, 2017 - landowner request that noise be kept down and that dogs be left at home.
2014 to present - volunteers have spent countless hours replacing hundreds of bolts

This is a glimpse of the recent history.  A lot of people worked hard to make it happen and want it open to the public.  Hidden is not a destination place, but it is a fantastic cliff that does have potential access issues due to multiple landowners.  Keeping it off MP (it does have a page for basic information and directions) is kinda like a filter that may keep it from being overrun in the future.  The parking lot is excellent, but cannot handle large crowds.  Folks who want to enjoy it to the fullest will get the guidebook, but heck, you don’t really even need a guidebook.  I climbed there for two years with no guidebook.  Most stuff is well bolted.  I would just look to see what seemed within my range and give it a shot, felt like adventurey sport climbing, it was super fun.  The CCC’s work at Hidden Valley convinced me to start giving back to the climbing community as well.

Thanks Curtis, nice timeline. One minor correction:

Spring 2017 - VDGIF surveys the cliff as the land had not been surveyed when originally purchased. Although this more clearly marks the boundaries, the ownership of the left side has always been VDGIF and a permit has always been required as noted on the CCC site when the cliff opened.

Thanks for all your work replacing hardware up there!