"Full" Winter Gear?

I'm new to winter hiking and wondering what others more experienced on VFFT would define as "full winter gear". What are you carrying now, over and above gear for a fall hike, when climbing in the whites, especially above treeline?

Are Plastic boots or similar winter footwear needed now? Also, I've always wondered when to bring snowshoes - are folks already carrying them? In terms of clothing, do you wear full gore-tex? On the few winter hikes I've done I started out in long johns and shorts and moved up to a pair of schoeller Mammut pants and extra layers.

I know most of this comes from experience but I'm hoping some of you can get me started in the right direction. Thanks

With the colder weather with us again its time to think about the cold weather kit. Checking out some of the bits and pieces I have I found my thermos flask needs replacing for the occasions when I don't have a Mayobren  or storm kettle to hand. So a simple question - which thermos do you guys use and why? I read article and found good examples.

Plastic boots? For Vermont? At 6000' at most? Certainly not needed if you're moving at all.

 For a real winter hike up mount Washington or other presidential you will definitely want crampons and an Ice Axe. I used to wear crampons on my heavy snow boots if I needed them. Plastic/mountaineering boots are a nice to have for winter hikes in the presidentials but not necessary if you can get crampons on any other boot (microspikes won't cut it up there)

Snowshoes suck. So you get good at deciding whether or not you are going to need them. Most of the time in January or February you'll need them if you aren't hiking on the most of popular trails. Right now you can get away with no snowshoes. I always bring them in the car and decide at the trailhead.
As far as layers go you sound warm enough. I bring my Goretex hardshell jacket everywhere I go and only bring shell pants if it's going to rain/storm.

Winter hiking is a lot of fun and presents challenges not experienced the rest of the year.
Note that in the Adirondacks snowshoes are mandatory when there is 8" or more of snow on the ground. There are additional tips here.

Victor Cassady wrote: I'm new to winter hiking and wondering what others more experienced on VFFT would define as "full winter gear". What are you carrying now, over and above gear for a fall hike, when climbing in the whites, especially above treeline?

Are Plastic boots or similar winter footwear needed now? Also, I've always wondered when to bring snowshoes - are folks already carrying them? In terms of clothing, do you wear full gore-tex? On the few winter hikes I've done I started out in long johns and shorts and moved up to a pair of schoeller Mammut pants and extra layers.

I know most of this comes from experience but I'm hoping some of you can get me started in the right direction. Thanks

Here's how I view hiking hiking and climbing in the White Mountains in the winter and going above treeline:

Footwear: Winter or mountaineering boots are important. Plastic double boots are a reasonable option that I've seen used. I've successfully used the La Sportiva Nepal Evo for a decade now. Crampons are needed depending on the steepness of the terrain and microspikes may also be required on some trails. An ice axe should be used on steeper terrain and hiking poles are also valuable.

Clothing: Layering is important and for colder weather, you may need to use warmer layers or more layers (or both). Winter hiking is excellent because you warm up so much while hiking and it's easy to keep cool. I go with a light synthetic baselayer top and bottom, soft shell pants, fleece and insulated mid layers, and a gore-text shell. While hiking, I'm usually into just the fleece pretty quickly and throw an insulating jacket on when stopped. My shell mostly stays in my pack unless things get windy or wet. Have extra layers in your pack.  A hat, neck gaiter, and multiple pairs of gloves are also really important for me. Sounds like you're on the right track here based on what you've used in the past.

Extras: Sunglasses and goggles are also very important.

Sounds like you may want to join a club hike or skills course organized by either the AMC, ADK Mountain club or even the Catskill 3500 Club. Sidenote about snowshoes, Besides being mandatory in some areas, they should always be carried. Conditions at the trailhead are almost never representative of conditions at the summit, or especially in cols that might accumulate significant snow drifts. Postholing can be miserable and slow going. It also wrecks the trail for the folks hiking behind you.

https://www.winterschool.org/

Winter gear checklist here:

https://www.winterschool.org/student-center

Don't underestimate the dangers of winter hiking. There's no shame in turning around

Ryan Pfleger wrote: Plastic boots? For Vermont? At 6000' at most? Certainly not needed if you're moving at all.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2081256/why-mount-washington-kills

the whites are no joke hombre

Parker Kempf wrote:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2081256/why-mount-washington-kills

the whites are no joke hombre

And they aren't in VT.  And VT doesn't go to 6K.

Eric Engberg wrote:

And they aren't in VT.  And VT doesn't go to 6K.

what?! oh god what have i done! this is terrible news!

Parker Kempf wrote:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2081256/why-mount-washington-kills

the whites are no joke hombre

I'm sure plastic double boots would have made all the difference. :-p

I have done overnight ski tours when the low was -45F. Slept in a tent or cave plenty of times in the -30Fs in the mountains, sometimes solo. Spent many days ice climbing in the Canadian Rockies or Hyalite at -20F (or colder).

Everybodies feet are different, but I managed just fine with pretty light Scarpa Rebels and gaiters for the climbing days, and TLTs for the skiing days.

I didn't read the article you posted, but here are the basics:

Have the fitness to keep moving OR have the gear to stay alive overnight in the conditions. AND the ability to not get lost.

Don't overestimate your abilities and don't underestimate the conditions.

Don't get hurt.

EDIT: I read the article. There is a big space between flip flops/shorts and double boots. Explore that space.

Eric Engberg wrote:

And they aren't in VT.  And VT doesn't go to 6K.

Sorry, he mentioned the Whites and my mind thought Presidentials. Same info applies. No plastic boots, double boots, etc needed.

Parker Kempf wrote:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2081256/why-mount-washington-kills

the whites are no joke hombre

They are serious, as are the 'Daks. DEC has put up placards at the trailheads this year to try and educate the masses on the seriousness of winter hiking. One of the claims is that 'the average wind chill on the High Peaks is -27F' which after five years of extensive winter hiking and climbing in the 'Daks I'm going to call BS on as an average, but it can get at least that bad and frequently much worse. I have not typically carried goggles, but a couple of years ago climbing the summit cone on Marcy with temps below zero and winds gusting to 40+ I began to worry that eyeballs could get frostbit. I have never been in a situation hiking in the Whites or the Daks where I felt I needed my plastic boots, but then I probably simply would not go out into it if it were that bad.

And snowshoes don't suck, that's just ignorance. The trails in the NE are usually rutted, rocky, rooty, messes. They are much easier to hike in the winter with snowshoes if there is any pack at all. Snowshoes are also remarkably versatile climbing equipment. My wife and I frequently climb slides in the 'Daks in the winter. On Preisdent's day a couple of years ago we did The Bottle on Giant, which is about 1500-2000' 40 degree slide. Conditions were mostly crusty ice over powder, crappy snow over ice, a few blue ice bulges and even some neve here and there. We had crampons but elected to climb the whole thing in our snow shoes and an ice ax each. We ran into a guy on the summit who said, 'Huh, I thought you needed full ice gear and ropes for that', but the snowshoes worked just fine, although once we were way up there I did ponder that Barbara probably could have used a couple more self arrest sessions before we embarked. Note though, we were using pretty aggressive snowshoes, Lightning Ascents in this case.

Jim Corbett wrote:

...I have never been in a situation hiking in the Whites or the Daks where I felt I needed my plastic boots, but then I probably simply would not go out into it if it were that bad....

And snowshoes don't suck, that's just ignorance....  Note though, we were using pretty aggressive snowshoes, Lightning Ascents in this case.

This.

If you are in a situation where the wind chill is so severe plastic boots seem like a good idea, maybe bring a boat anchor too to keep from getting blown off the mountain.

Sometimes snowshoes are the right tool for the job, but when that is the case maybe the job isn't as much fun as it could be. I think the Lightning Ascents are the best snowshoes out there. They are as light as some of the running models, but much better traction. The women's models are the way to go as they are narrower. 

Ryan Pfleger wrote:

Spent many days ice climbing in the Canadian Rockies or Hyalite at -20F (or colder).

Everybodies feet are different, but I managed just fine with pretty light Scarpa Rebels and gaiters for the climbing days, and TLTs for the skiing days.

Many your feet run exceptionally warm if you can use rebel pros ice climbing at -20f and be happy about it. Was this soloing moderates or did you actually have to belay?

I brought a pair of rebel pros and a pair of phantom 6000s to the Canadian Rockies a couple years back, plan was to use the pros for non picked out WI5 or mixed. Wore them a couple days at -10F and ended up with screaming barfies from my feet. While I was climbing it was just bearable, but after belaying for any amount of time my feet were so damn cold that barfies would come on in the middle of the next pitch. I had to default to the clunk 6000 after that (have since got phantom techs).

I hate plastic boots, but doubles do have an advantage for drying overnight if you're doing overnights. VBL socks can make a single super gaiter stay dry, but putting them on the morning is brutal. Handwarmer packets in them overnight are key if trying to rock the singles.  

Nick Drake wrote:

Many your feet run exceptionally warm if you can use rebel pros ice climbing at -20f and be happy about it. Was this soloing moderates or did you actually have to belay?

Definitely had to belay, and did some multipitch, but you can always move around a bit at belays. Was sleeping inside for the ice climbing, so my gear was always dry in the morning. On the coldest days I used a toe warmer packet, gaiters, and tied boots as loosely as practical to help circulation. And made a point to do lots of air squats, walking in place, etc while belaying. To be honest I was surprised they stayed so warm, but they did. 

Ryan Pfleger wrote:

Definitely had to belay, and did some multipitch, but you can always move around a bit at belays. Was sleeping inside for the ice climbing, so my gear was always dry in the morning. On the coldest days I used a toe warmer packet, gaiters, and tied boots as loosely as practical to help circulation. And made a point to do lots of air squats, walking in place, etc while belaying. To be honest I was surprised they stayed so warm, but they did. 

Ah the toe warmer packet could explain it more. Mine are a pretty comfy fit with room to wiggle toes, but not enough for those packets. I think a lot of the cold for me was actually going out through the sole through the crampons also. I've thought about bringing a small piece of an old z lite mattress to stand on for single pitch, but always forget about it. 

Nick Drake wrote:

Ah the toe warmer packet could explain it more. Mine are a pretty comfy fit with room to wiggle toes, but not enough for those packets. I think a lot of the cold for me was actually going out through the sole through the crampons also. I've thought about bringing a small piece of an old z lite mattress to stand on for single pitch, but always forget about it. 

Try thin reflective insulation with your insoles.