Intermediate climbing shoes at what grade?

At what grade did people move away from beginner shoes to a more advanced / technical pair? I've been climbing a couple of years now with my Scarpa Velocity shoes. I can climb most V3s now and several V4s in bouldering, and am climbing at 6b+ / 5.11a in roped climbing. When did people move from beginner shoes to something more advance? I've never felt like I haven't been able to send a climb because of my shoes - usually it's my skills that let me down! I go through my shoes about every 9-10 months climbing a couple of times a week so I am a bit hesitant to buy and expensive shoe with thinner rubber if I will just burn through it quicker. Are more expensive shoes worth it? The Velocity shoes are quite stiff so there are times that I would like more feeling and sensitivity I guess. I'm thinking of getting Scarpa Vapour V or 5.10 Anasazi VCS. 

Sharma did Esperanza in Moccs so I guess V14 at least.

Find a shoe that fits your foot with the least compromise. Wait for shoes to go on clearance/sale. Buy shoes. Shoes don't have to be as expensive as they can be.

Are they worth it?  you tell us.  Totally depends on YOUR needs.

$20 more than the Velocity. I just scored a pair of these for $80

https://www.moosejaw.com/product/scarpa-men-s-vapor-v-climbing-shoe_10273000

For tiny or huge feet only:

https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-ten-anasazi-vcs-xx-men%27s-climbing-shoe/FTA22.html?dwvar_FTA22_color=Golden_Tan&cgid=sports-moderate

https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-ten-quantum-men%27s-climbing-shoe/FT36.html?dwvar_FT36_color=Royal_Blue&cgid=

I went to aggressive shoes at 5.12b.

Depends where and what you are climbing not so much the grade

I think go ahead and get a more aggressive pair of shoes! I'll also say that I think it helps to think about shoes as more "flat" or as more "aggressive / down turned" rather than beginner vs advanced. I have a pair of fairly flat shoes and an aggressive pair, and I've definitely climbed some "advanced" stuff in the flat shoes - slabs and cracks. If you are climbing overhung stuff you might find you like a more aggressive shoe. I also like aggressive shoes for some routes with small foot chips.

If thin rubber is a concern for you, you could always buy an down turned pair with thick rubber like Miuras.

Does your gym ever have shoe demos? You might mark that on your calendar and climb for a day with a more down turned pair.

bagel bagels wrote: Sharma did Esperanza in Moccs so I guess V14 at least.

He also did Dreamcatcher in them, so 5.14d.

Just FYI, when the Mocc came out in the early 90s, it was considered a high performance slipper, and was THE go to shoe for hard bouldering for at least the first 10 years of its existence. 

Buy the upper end Sportivas now and they'll be broken in and be your favorite shoes when you get to an advanced level.  Resoling costs less than another shoe pair.  Don't waste your time and money with mid level shoes.  Katana lace or Kataki or Otaki.

I would invest in a kneebar pad before better shoes

the schmuck wrote: Just FYI, when the Mocc came out in the early 90s, it was considered a high performance slipper, and was THE go to shoe for hard bouldering for at least the first 10 years of its existence. 

Exactly. For it's time that WAS a high performing shoe, for smearing rock types the mocs still aren't a bad shoe. Comparing them to a beginner shoe like the velocity is comparing a prius to a toyota 86.
Also as important we're also talking about someone with an incredible amount of strength and natural talent in those styles of climbing, who didn't exactly rely on fancy footwork. Unless you did a 14c at two years in you're not Chris Sharma and you should probably ignore what worked for Chris Sharma.

To the OP, you do not need to go for the most aggressive shoe, but I would recommend going to a model that isn't geared toward new climbers and rentals. The last is geared for comfort before performance, with a more symmetrical last that doesn't let you drive through your big toe on smaller edges as easily. They are less precise than something more asymmetrical with a straighter edge on the inside of the big toe. Also stepping up one level you'll get a vibram rubber compound on the sole which has more grip and will greatly help you when it comes to smearing.

There's a good middle ground here though, you don't want to run out and jump directly into a pair of furias or testarossas. If scarpa tends to fit your foot well I'd try on the vapor V, that's a shoe that's geared toward performance, very well rounded, and still quite comfortable. Katana lace is a similar shoe (tad stiffer) and may fit some better. 

If the shoe doesn't fit YOUR foot though, none of this other crap matters. You're never going to truly trust your feet if your shoe either hurts or you've got slop/dead space in it. I'd take the shoe that fits closest to a glove over the one with the fanciest tech buzz words in the marketing any day. 

Nick Drake wrote:

Comparing them to a beginner shoe like the velocity is comparing a prius to a toyota 86.

They’re both slow and ugly, so have a decent amount in common.

Bro, size ‘em down!

Just ask yourself this, do you find your foot just slipping out on you? I have the scarpa Force v. Not because it’s the best shoe, that’s just what fits my foot the best and offers enough performance for what I’m climbing.
You don’t have to have your toes crunches in ball below your absolute limit

bagel bagels wrote: They’re both slow and ugly, so have a decent amount in common.

One is relatively far faster and doesn't make you fall asleep in turns. I could have used the supra, but I figured a BMW Z4 was an even odder comparison. For reference I own none of said vehicles. 

When I started climbing I started right away with Katanas (Laces). They were comfortable, fit my foot amazingly well and in contrast to typical beginner shoes (like Tarantulaces etc.) I had the feeling they encouraged good and precise footwork. Also I don't agree with the sentiment that you should go for a cheap shoe first because you will shred it in no time. My Katanas lasted over 1,5 years when I sent them in for resole and I think they would have gone strong for half a year more if I would have pushed it (and we're talking climbing 3-4 times a week). Zero regrets, would do it again. So I don't really think there's a certain breakpoint at when to start using performance shoes. YMMV.
Now I have a Vapor V (new version) as my allround shoe for gym climbing and extended climbing sessions, comfortable, mildly downturned and sensitive enough. Would be the perfect shoe for me if the heel fit a bit more snug. I think this is like the perfect allrounder.

I’m with the poster who suggests two pairs. One flat, one aggressive. I climb to 5.11 for the most part and I simply have no use for s pair of Solutions or any of the other massively downturned shoes. I use Scarpa helix and mythos for slab/all around/ multi pitch work. And I use Tenaya Iatis for steep southern sandstone. The Iati is a great compromise shoe. It’s a good all arounder. Has enough downturn to tame overhanging sandstone but doesn’t need to be sized so small you can’t walk two feet in them.
A mildly aggressive shoe will help you if only for the confidence it instills. But if you are like me, and the terrain just doesn’t require it, then a high end aggressive shoe just isn’t necessary. And while Alex Megos climbs in the Iati, I still don’t consider it an aggressive shoe.
Back in the late 80s early 90s when I was working on harder stuff we were climbing in Sportiva Megas and doing just fine.
As a quick aside about shoe pricing. Shoes are cheap. In 1990 I paid $125 for my last pair of Megas. I bought my Tenayas from Epic TV shop for $120. Nearly 30 years and shoe prices have not jumped substantially. Compare that to a good GoreTex jacket that has nearly tripled in price since then. As a dirtbag back then I scrimped and saved for every piece of gear. Today I don’t blink at shoe prices. 

If you're climbing in the gym you would benefit from a shoe with more rubber for toe hooking and a better heel, go for something like a vapour V.
I work and a bouldering gum and most people tend to go for a more advanced shoe for their second pair then a more boulder specific shoe for their 3rd/4th, if I was at a lead wall though I'd probably see people mostly just climbing in vapour V esque shoes.

Thanks all. In the end I did go with the Vapour Vs, mostly just to see what difference they make. The fit is tight and they need to be broken in so I can't immediately tell how good they are. I've only tried a few moves on a traverse wall and everything is still quite stiff and not especially sensitive. I'll give them a proper go this weekend!